Aircraft/Armor Surplus Storage

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Army Sgt., if we started poking holes in t2k's realism issues by the end of the day we'd have an aperture grille, not a solid peace.

Olefin's suggesting, and I'm suggesting "This could be a neat thing". Nobody's going to drive to your house and scribble in "...AND THE JACQUES LITTLEFIELD COLLECTION!" in your copy of Howling Wilderness.

I used to be like you, I'd get worked up when someone said lifting demi-human level limits from AD&D was a good idea. But here's the thing: to all discussions about RPGs, attach "...at my table." whether you're arguing for or against. And then I quit because writing 40000 words over a course of weeks in a forum about xyz issue is a waste of time and effort. You're not going to change. I'm not going to change.

There's plenty of logical reasons to include Littlefield's collection in a consideration of arms and armor in the US, post Exchange. There's plenty of reasons not to. At the end of the day do it or don't do it. The whole goddamn game is rife with plot and believability holes.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Army Sgt., if we started poking holes in t2k's realism issues by the end of the day we'd have an aperture grille, not a solid peace.

Olefin's suggesting, and I'm suggesting "This could be a neat thing". Nobody's going to drive to your house and scribble in "...AND THE JACQUES LITTLEFIELD COLLECTION!" in your copy of Howling Wilderness.

I used to be like you, I'd get worked up when someone said lifting demi-human level limits from AD&D was a good idea. But here's the thing: to all discussions about RPGs, attach "...at my table." whether you're arguing for or against. And then I quit because writing 40000 words over a course of weeks in a forum about xyz issue is a waste of time and effort. You're not going to change. I'm not going to change.

There's plenty of logical reasons to include Littlefield's collection in a consideration of arms and armor in the US, post Exchange. There's plenty of reasons not to. At the end of the day do it or don't do it. The whole goddamn game is rife with plot and believability holes.

I am just going to stick to the topic. I am not upset that someone doesn't agree with me.

I don't care if you want Panzers or Shermans in your T2k game because you think these are sexy. What I like about T2k and other post apocalyptic games is the realism..... I tired of AD&D and magic solving everything long, long ago.

So if you have one, then I demand a plausible and logical reason. To just say "Because" is an insult to the adults sitting at the table.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I have no problem with AD&D and the magic but I am like ArmySGT when it comes to games set in historical, modern or near future settings, I want plausible believability.
For fantasy, horror and sci-fi games I'm happy to suspend my disbelief but for modern settings, I and the people I've been gaming with have become more demanding and we want real-world, logical answers.

So I'm kinda walking in the middle here, I agree that the Littlefield collection represents a wonderful resource to anyone who controls it but I find it a stretch to believe that anyone is going to try and field the majority of Littlefield's vehicles with all their different spare parts needs as an integrated combat unit.

It's one thing for an M113 unit to throw a pair of refurbished M114 vehicles into their TOE or even a pair of SdKfz 251 halftracks but in my opinion it's too demanding on logistics to expect them to field say 10-15 M113s, a couple of M114s, a couple of SdKfz 251s, an M4 Sherman, a Matilda MkII, an M18 Hellcat and an SU-100.

[Raellus]

Hey fellas,

Things are getting a little bit testy here so, instead of trying to win each other over to our own points of view, no matter how enlightened they may be, it might be wiser and more productive to just agree to disagree.

This note is not directed at any particular user. At this point, I don't see the need to shut this thread down or PM official cease and desist requests. Let's all do our parts not to let it get to that point.

Thanks.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

So I'm kinda walking in the middle here, I agree that the Littlefield collection represents a wonderful resource to anyone who controls it but I find it a stretch to believe that anyone is going to try and field the majority of Littlefield's vehicles with all their different spare parts needs as an integrated combat unit.

I think these items do have their place if refurbished. Rear area security missions like the seaport, airfields, and resources like a nuclear power plant, desalinization plant. Those things. Then these WW2 relics earn their keep freeing up newer more capable platforms for the fight on the southern border. In those missions they are unlikely to be used hard enough to tear through parts or come up against modern AT weapons and soldiers with the training to use them.

A resource like the machine shop at the Littlefield collection would be better used repairing battle damaged wrecks and training every mechanic and technician that can be found in doing the same. A the while Mr. Littlefield himself travels the southwest region assembling new machineshops to do the same thing as a consultant.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Hey fellas,

Things are getting a little bit testy here so, instead of trying to win each other over to our own points of view, no matter how enlightened they may be, it might be wiser and more productive to just agree to disagree.

This note is not directed at any particular user. At this point, I don't see the need to shut this thread down or PM official cease and desist requests. Let's all do our parts not to let it get to that point.

Thanks.

Yeah, I had this same argument a couple of years back and no good came of it. Actually I believe it marked the start of a decline in my participation level on this forum that hasn't really recovered. I've watched this most recent cycle and decided against joining in because I know from bitter experience that it'd be the equivalent of banging my head against the wall.

[Olefin]

Actually I dont think any of the Panzers or Lees or Stuarts or the WWII British tanks he has would ever be used - they dont have live barrels - that also applies to all the German WWII artillery he had as well

The only real WWII or Korea tanks he has that have live barrels are a couple of Shermans that the Israelis extensively modified (so much so that they successfully were being used as tanks well into the 1980's) and one M47 tank

the APC's and half tracks are a different issue - all you need to arm them is a 50 caliber machine gun and they are ready to rock - including that M113 he has (and got to love that M113 fire support vehicle as well)

looked thru what he had that actually worked and was ready to go and what could be made ready to go that had live barrels or didnt need a main gun working to be effective (for instance the Ferret armored car that only has a 50 cal machine gun for its armament)

• six assorted armored cars,
• five tanks (a Conqueror Heavy tank, a Centurion Mk13 tank, two ex-Israeli Sherman tanks and a Patton M47 tank)
• M113A1 FSV
• six assorted armored personnel carriers
• a FV433 Abbot M105 SPG, a Sexton SPG armed with a 105mm howitzer and an M37 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage
• three assorted recovery vehicles
• Saracen Command Post vehicle
• Israeli BTR 40

Like I said the Lees, Stuarts, Cromwells, Panzers and other stuff are great to look at but with no main guns that work they are better off being left there - or having the tank bodies removed and turn them into mobile gun platforms - otherwise they are just very large machine gun platforms

so I agree that the majority of his collection will never be used - keep in mind we are talking about a large amount of vehicles that he had - that fact that 25 vehicles can be used sounds like a lot

but keep in mind we are talking about 15-20% or so of his overall collection

and his shop and those techs are the real prize

And as I said use it or not if you want in your campaign - but its hardly magic or a stretch to have that many of his vehicles be drafted into MilGov - especially not one using CEV's as tanks in CA

either way more than nuff said on this subject

[StainlessSteelCynic]

*** Thread Necromancy ***


This seemed like the best place to mention this...
Just been reading about preserved military vehicles in the former Soviet Union. A large number of WW2 era vehicles were turned into monuments in the 1940s & 50s, typically consisting of a tank or assault gun mounted on some large plinth.
What was interesting from a T2k perspective was that the method of turning these vehicles into monuments was actually rather simplistic.

The plinth would be constructed, then an earthen ramp was made behind the plinth and the vehicle (in the vast majority of cases a T-34-85) was driven up the ramp and parked on the plinth. The batteries were disconnected and all hatches were spot welded closed but aside from the removal of ammunition, nothing else of significance was done to the vehicles.
The Soviet and then the Russian government also kept a stock of 20 working T-34-85 and 20 working Su-100 vehicles for use in Moscow parades however over time the number of operational vehicles has dropped down so that by 2018, they only had approximately 3 working T-34-85's (one leading the parade and the others as spares) and a similarly low number of Su-100's.

But in the last 20 or so years, a number of T-34-85's have been making appearances in local parades across Russia and Ukraine. These particular T-34's have been recovered from the plinths they were mounted on and restored to running order. In one particular case, the recovery team did little more than change the batteries & flush the fuel lines and the old tank started up on the first try.

Now I'm not saying that Eastern European armies, militias, bandit groups, town defence units etc. etc. are going to have hundreds of recovered and restored T-34's at their disposal, it's unlikely to even be dozens of vehicles. However the way the Soviet Union made those tanks into monuments does make restoring them a hell of a lot easier than what happens in the West. Although the vast majority of such WW2 monuments featured the T-34-85, the Soviets did "preserve" other vehicles in the same manner. Again, it's not going to let some unit equip dozens of old tanks but it does make the notion of equipping a unit with one or two older Soviet amoured vehicles easier to achieve.

All in all, with that information it's easier to justify why some group or other has a pair of T-34's on strength (or one or two other Soviet armoured vehicles) or even, if the PCs find out such info, why the PC group might end up with some of those vehicles.

[Olefin]

Its amazing how much WWII equipment the Soviets kept around - its one reason their WWII films were more accurate as to equipment versus ours (think the tanks that were used in Patton as to what I am talking about) - when Enemy at the Gates was made they used a lot of old WWII equipment for the movie that they got from Russian sources that was still in perfect working order

[ChalkLine]

There is a window where a failing industrial state would see these stored vehicles as more than just scrap value.

In World War 2 Australia was in a parlous state before the US joined the war and every rusty gun available was being dragged into government workshops to see if it could be made serviceable in any way. It was so bad there was a proposal to bring in civilian trucks, convert them to armoured cars for the length of the emergency and then deactivate and return the trucks to the civilians after the war. In my mind at least all the big powers reach this state during the Twilight War.

Working ex-military vehicles, especially armoured vehicles, can be given a modern weapon and placed in an Ad Hoc Emergency Defence Force unit for the duration. M551s could be given a low pressure 105mm gun, as could a Sherman (it actually has better armour).

Are these weapons going to Europe? No. They will be used when the final decline is imminent and the administrations are trying to (alas unsuccessfully) stave off collapse. They might never operate more than 50km from their refurbishment site.

An M3 Half Track might be 50+ years old but given an new M2, slat armour and desperate troops it's still a force to be reckoned with.

[Olefin]

Keep in mind that Mexico was still operating WWII equipment in their army in our real timeline - meaning that the invasion of the US would have had Stuart tanks and other fun pieces of hardware as part of their forces. And while Shermans and other older tanks would be easy meat for modern AT weapons the fact is that by 2000 you arent going to be seeing too many of them left - even among regular military units that are still intact.

[lordroel]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Keep in mind that Mexico was still operating WWII equipment in their army in our real timeline - meaning that the invasion of the US would have had Stuart tanks and other fun pieces of hardware as part of their forces. And while Shermans and other older tanks would be easy meat for modern AT weapons the fact is that by 2000 you arent going to be seeing too many of them left - even among regular military units that are still intact.

But would you agree Olefin, a Sherman is much easy to maintain and the build spare parts for than a modern tank like a Abrams.

[Olefin]

Definitely Roel - for one it was to be easy to maintain in the field - that was one reason the Germans had such a big problem during WWII - great tanks but maintenance was a real problem

[StainlessSteelCynic]

lordroel & Olefin - the article I was reading (details below) implies that the likely reason so many of these T-34's could be recovered and used in parades was because they are relatively simple to maintain compared to modern armoured vehicles and thus had lower amounts of vital equipment and less technologically demanding equipment in regards to manufacture & maintenance requirements.


Issue 211 of Classic Military Vehicles, December 2018,
pg 74-80, title: Old Soldiers On Parade.

[Legbreaker]

Can't assume every old Soviet AFV will be in close to fighting order though, even if the engine still runs. Plenty of vehicles kept by Russian museums in supposed "near complete" order have had vital systems removed such as breach blocks, sights, telescopes, periscopes, intercom (for those that had them to begin with), even ammo and equipment racks, not to mention crew seating. From the outside they look the part, but in reality they're not much more than an empty shell with an engine.
Basically anything you might be able to use in a newer vehicles (particularly things like radios) is often stripped out and reused, and anything else that could be pried loose before the hatches welded up scavenged by the workers and sold off for scrap. After all, who's going to know they took it all if nobody can climb in to check?

[lordroel]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Definitely Roel - for one it was to be easy to maintain in the field - that was one reason the Germans had such a big problem during WWII - great tanks but maintenance was a real problem

So would having tanks that from WW II era be much easy to maintain than tanks who where build around the period of World War III and thus more sought after.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by lordroel

So would having tanks that from WW II era be much easy to maintain than tanks who where build around the period of World War III and thus more sought after.

I wouldn't think so. There's a reason they're not used any more, and it's got nothing to do with ease of maintenance....

[madmikechoi]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Just to challenge convention....... Wouldn't the more modern M1s and M60s be sent overseas and older M48s kept at home? The better to fight them there, than fight them at home. Any M60s or newer still on U.S. soil would be Guard units or Federal units waiting to ship, or training units churning out replacements for losses overseas.

If we go by Timeline 1.0- the US never stopped producing tanks so tanks like the IP M1s (894) get converted to A1 standards and baseline (2300 and some change) would go to Guard heavy divisions. Plus there are a lot of equipment that's going directly to POMCUS or prepositioned on ships (Diego Garcia; Guam/Saipan/Tinian) or similar USMC programs (Norway or Korea).
So going by the Endless Cold War, the goal for Big Army was always to make sure 7th Army got the latest and greatest first but even then the 2d Infantry Division's heavy brigades would still get 120mm gun tanks and BFVs before '95/96 let alone the November Nukeout


IMNSHO those old M48A5s would get flogged off to the ROK Army as spares- especially during wartime losses; Thailand, Taiwan, and/or Turkey. The M60 series- the ones that aren't earmarked for the Israelis- I can see being used to reequip the USAR "training" divisions but the doctrine and TO&E would probably closer to the old H series although I think were would be a serious shortfall on anti-tank missiles and naturally little to no organic aviation so would have to rely on corps aviation brigades .

Those same training division would pretty much have to stop loss every solider and marine that ever served in ground combat arms for at least the past two to three fiscal years... provided these same dudes' original battalions didn't get first dibs. Personally I'm somewhat skeptical if those USAR divisions would ever get activated since we're talking about a complete call up of the entire Guard not just roundout brigades plus CAPSTONE so we're already talking about a lot of facilities being overtasked such shipping, ports, and training posts such as Little Sandbox, Yakima, Fort Puke, etc

Mad Mike

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by madmikechoi

Personally I'm somewhat skeptical if those USAR divisions would ever get activated since we're talking about a complete call up of the entire Guard not just roundout brigades plus CAPSTONE so we're already talking about a lot of facilities being overtasked such shipping, ports, and training posts such as Little Sandbox, Yakima, Fort Puke, etc

Only have to look at WWII to see how that would work. Training facilities can, and have been, rapidly and massively expanded in a time of crisis. Can't think of any event more critical that WWIII...

[madmikechoi]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only have to look at WWII to see how that would work. Training facilities can, and have been, rapidly and massively expanded in a time of crisis. Can't think of any event more critical that WWIII...

But a lot of those posts were closed... the US had years to raise and train an army to fight overseas. The Twilight War would see the entire US military engaged almost from the beginning w/ a war in Korea, numerous fronts in Europe from Norway to the Balkans, and another war in Iran plus the navy running around trying to secure lines of communication throughout the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans.

If anything would make initial sense was once NG units get mobilized from Day 1 with a deployment overseas no greater than 180 days from mob orders, USAR training divisions would try to set up refresher and force on force for combat arms a la NTC and JRTC at places like Shelby or Indiantown Gap (last time I checked there's something 4-6 reserve component mobilization centers/reserve training sites) and/or use defense contractors. Beats trying to see if they can setup a lottery for every swinging dick that filled out a selective service card; then sending them for ASVABs and medical; and finally getting a bunch of these fools on buses to OSUT or basic training posts. Mobilization support and sustainment of NG and USAR combat arms (if we go by Ver 1 Twilight these units never went away but never really got much bigger either b/c CAPSTONE of service support and selective combat support units offered Big Army more bang for the buck)

OTOH concurrently w/ this proposedmassive mobilization it would give places like Sierra Army Depot and Anniston an excuse to run 24-7 shifts w/ overtime to get everything from trucks and typewriters to tanks and trailers in running order. Go figure


Mad Mike

[madmikechoi]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Only have to look at WWII to see how that would work. Training facilities can, and have been, rapidly and massively expanded in a time of crisis. Can't think of any event more critical that WWIII...

But a lot of those posts were closed... the US had years to raise and train an army to fight overseas. The Twilight War would see the entire US military engaged almost from the beginning w/ a war in Korea, numerous fronts in Europe from Norway to the Balkans, and another war in Iran plus the navy running around trying to secure lines of communication throughout the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans.

If anything would make initial sense was once NG units get mobilized from Day 1 with a deployment overseas no greater than 180 days from mob orders, USAR training divisions would try to set up refresher and force on force for combat arms a la NTC and JRTC at places like Shelby or Indiantown Gap (last time I checked there's something 4-6 reserve component mobilization centers/reserve training sites) and/or use defense contractors. Beats trying to see if they can setup a lottery for every swinging dick that filled out a selective service card; then sending them for ASVABs and medical; and finally getting a bunch of these fools on buses to OSUT or basic training posts. Mobilization support and sustainment of NG and USAR combat arms (if we go by Ver 1 Twilight these units never went away but never really got much bigger either b/c CAPSTONE of service support and selective combat support units offered Big Army more bang for the buck)

OTOH concurrently w/ this proposedmassive mobilization it would give places like Sierra Army Depot and Anniston an excuse to run 24-7 shifts w/ overtime to get everything from trucks and typewriters to tanks and trailers in running order. Go figure


Mad Mike

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by madmikechoi

But a lot of those posts were closed... the US had years to raise and train an army to fight overseas.

Really?
So what was the state of the US military in early December 1941?
Seems to me it was pretty terrible and there was a HUGE expansion during 1941 and onwards. Yes, they started before Pearl Harbour, but compared to what it became, it was initially only a small increase in numbers and quite leisurely.

With T2K, the world had a reasonable amount of notice too. China and the USSR had been going at it for quite some time (about a year or so depending on which edition you're using), and tensions along the German border had been steadily ramping up for about as long. We can be fairly sure though that conscription was not implemented at this early stage, but likewise it's almost a certainty plans existed for a rapid call up and expansion (unlike WWI and WWII, the US had a clear opponent in the USSR to counter).

We also know that due to the lack of transport many units were not deployed to Europe and the Middle East until 1997, even 98 in some cases (look through the various books with unit histories for confirmation of this).

Given this canon information, it's quite clear the US had plenty of time to call up all reservists and conscript even more troops, as well as construct the necessary training facilities (which may well have been little more than tent cities).

[ChalkLine]

This would have been accompanied by a shifting to a war economy as it is an existential threat to the state. War Loans would be made to the state so that industrial output could be supercharged. At that point no one would have any idea how it would go, and if it did go well what reverses might suddenly occur (as is what did happen in the canonical history) so high output programs, planned years ahead and with the infrastructure already put in the pipeline, would surge.

I think the standard T2K armies are far too small

[Olefin]

Thats one thing that the game had wrong was the USAR units - some of them had cavalry and armored equipment attached to them - for instance the 100th Training Division had M1 tanks and M3 Bradleys - but if you look at the US Army Vehicle Guide they say all they had was light infantry troops and 105mm guns - which is inaccurate. There were at least one battalion of tanks and two cavalry squadrons attached to that division. It was the only training division with the mission of conducting training on the M-1 Abrams tank and the M-3 Bradley Cavalry vehicle. Thus it probably would have been the most effective of the training units.

As for old tanks in the US - keep in mind that a lot of the current state of demilitarization of old tanks in the US, where they made damn sure they couldnt be able to fire, was after that nut stole that tank in 1995. Since then it has been a lot harder to be able to keep a tank in proper firing condition in the US in private hands. When I was a teenager we had a guy who owned a Sherman tank in my area that was 100% complete and operational - he even had a few shells for it - and not blanks either.

[Legbreaker]

There's a good chance the training units would have their more modern equipment stripped off and sent to the front lines as replacements.
Training units don't usually need the "latest and greatest", at least not for practising tactics, etc. Just a handful of modern tanks, or even mockups/simulators would suffice in a pinch to get vehicle crews familiarised with what they'll end up fighting in - not the best situation, but certainly better than sending inadequate vehicles to the front lines (which we know did actually happen - various books, colour plates and notes).

Real world, peacetime unit organisations don't last. External factors will always have an impact.

[dragoon500ly]

One little thing about the training divisions, they are not equipped with battalions of equipment, they use NG equipment to train on, for the most part, and if activated, they would assume the training equipment left with the service schools.

I'm the first to admit, I have a lot of issues with the canon order of battle, but they were fairly correct in one aspect, the training divisions would have gone into action as either weak infantry/light infantry divisions, with nothing heavier than mothballed artillery, early generation AT weapons, and whatever small arms that could be scrounged to supplement issued weapons.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I'm the first to admit, I have a lot of issues with the canon order of battle....

A lot of that can be adequately explained away by the pressures and vagaries of near 5 years of intense and wide spread combat. Sure, some units were earmarked for certain theatres, but due to the situation on the ground elsewhere at a particular time, entire brigades would have had to be detached from their intended parent units and attached elsewhere.

As for the rest, it's quite likely any strange decisions could be put down to politics, lack of transportation, limited resources, or a host of other things.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

One little thing about the training divisions, they are not equipped with battalions of equipment, they use NG equipment to train on, for the most part, and if activated, they would assume the training equipment left with the service schools.

I'm the first to admit, I have a lot of issues with the canon order of battle, but they were fairly correct in one aspect, the training divisions would have gone into action as either weak infantry/light infantry divisions, with nothing heavier than mothballed artillery, early generation AT weapons, and whatever small arms that could be scrounged to supplement issued weapons.

Actually the 100th had two brigades that were designated as training units specifically for armor and cavalry troops and was specifically assigned M1 tanks and Bradley APC's - enough to form at least two full battalions from what I have found and possibly three. I could see most of the others lacking armor but they are the one group that would have had at least a decent amount at the start - which could explain why they still have tanks in 2000. If there is one of the training divisions that needs to be updated to show it having tanks and APC's at the start I would say its the 100th. Now I could see the 100th getting its M1's and Bradley's replaced with M60A4's and M113's as the newer equipment was needed to be sent to Europe and Korea and the Middle East.

Also keep in mind that the USAR training units had first rate NCO's and officers as well. And they would have definitely had regular army small arms, mortars and machine guns to go around - they are training units after all and its hard to train men in how to be soldiers without weapons.

The question what was their training function and did they train them for combat operations? One thing to look at with the training units is what their assignments actually were - i.e. the ones that were training for combat would have definitely had a better record in the field than units that were training support units.

For instance the 85th was a logistics training unit - not a combat training unit like the 100th. And its record in the Twilight War reflects that - i.e. it almost got wiped out by the Texian Legion. Whereas the 100th did pretty good and by 2000 is actually the unit that is guarding one of the most important areas that MilGov has left.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Now I could see the 100th getting its M1's and Bradley's replaced with M60A4's and M113's as the newer equipment was needed to be sent to Europe and Korea and the Middle East.

It's conceivable they didn't even have vehicles that new given the hodge podge of vehicles such as the Stingray, Peacekeepers and Commandos which were requisitioned and pressed into combat service. M48's and other 1950's vehicles could well have made up the bulk of their armoured strength in the beginning, along with the 4 M60A3s, 1 M1 and 1 M1A1 listed in the vehicle books. The older equipment may have been lost in combat, broken down, or even been reallocated to neighbouring units leaving just the 6 tanks listed (which were likely all that was left of the modern training vehicles, or too worn out to send overseas - trainees tend to be rather hard on equipment).

[Olefin]

Given the fact that they drove into Texas and are the strategic reserve now for MilGov I am betting that they had pretty good armor but not a lot of it when the division was formed up for combat - probably a battalion of mixed tanks which explains what they have left - could easily see them starting with a mix of a company of M1 tanks (both M1 and M1A1 models that were training tanks with higher miles and thus ones that might have been left behind) as well as replacement M60A4's to bring them back up to strength along with the cav vehicles they would have had as well.

And actually they would have been in a good position to keep going what they had - one of their training functions was in maintenance of the tanks.

Again this doesnt apply to all the training units - but for the 100th an addition of a couple of cav battalions (armed with older equipment) and an armored battalion (with a mixed bag of tanks) would definitely be appropriate given their assignment.

And one thing that is actually surprising is that you dont see the M48 or older versions of the M60 showing up in many of the stateside units - there were stockpiles of them still and they are the perfect tanks to have never been issued to units heading out to take on top of the line Soviet equipment and thus ones you would see in things like the rebuilt 40th Mechanized.