Team Cache separate updates?

[ArmySGT.]

Digging up a 2 meter by 2 meter cube and replacing it quickly with a completely new and loaded 2 meter by 2 meter cube.

Seems reasonably easy to me and with how many are positioned off routes near a geolocation marker relatively simple to do so with not so much deception.

So Teams are buried over time in 3rd canon the Boltholes were unearthed and team equipment plus vehicles were updated.

With this in mind, how would you go about updating cache contents? What would you insert? Would you increase the size or the number of caches? Would you give the Team a cache packing list in their bolthole for each cache?

[Project_Sardonicus]

interesting question I think the 2 things that a team would really want that might not have been so feasible in the mid 80s would be.

1 A tough, water proof laptop or better still a pad. With files on upto date maps, how to guides, etc etc.

2 A small drone like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_RQ-16_T-Hawk giving every recon team, the ability to carry out some sort of over the horizon air reconnaissance.

3 A decent mini camera with hd recording.

[nuke11]

I never liked the idea of going back and opening up all of the caches for the teams and inserting new equipment. This in itself is a security nightmare.

I always thought the best was to do a map update for the team in the bolt hole and just mark the old caches as supplementary and give them new primary caches instead

If you want to search for a USGS Benchmark (now managed by the National Geodetic Survey) this interactive map is a nice way to find the benchmarks used : https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/datasheets/

And some interesting information : http://gisgeography.com/survey-bench...tion-geocache/

[ArmySGT.]

I wouldn't be inclined to give the PC six additional caches. I would do as you suggest and have the old ones replaced. However, I would shunt the locations to the Combined Group Leader and the Regional Base Commander.

The full loadout plus caches is already a Monty Haul game in my experience.

[Craig67]

A packing list for sure, I would put in on the hard drive in the vehicle computer.

Something I've been thinking about are over the snow vehicles. I would want to run a campaign in the northern US/ southern Canada, so snow is an issue. The V150's have only limited ability in the snow (yes, even with chains on the tires) so a BV206 seems essential for each team in snow country. I would put this in a "super cache" with all the team's extra winter equipment.

Another idea is for each team to have a super sized reconstruction cache. This would have a large selection of reconstruction supplies and tools for issue to the locals.

The other four caches would be the standard resupply caches.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by nuke11

I never liked the idea of going back and opening up all of the caches for the teams and inserting new equipment. This in itself is a security nightmare.

I always thought the best was to do a map update for the team in the bolt hole and just mark the old caches as supplementary and give them new primary caches instead

If you want to search for a USGS Benchmark (now managed by the National Geodetic Survey) this interactive map is a nice way to find the benchmarks used : https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/datasheets/

And some interesting information : http://gisgeography.com/survey-bench...tion-geocache/

The security of digging up caches and replacing the contents might not be so scary. Using the resources you supplied and doing a little extra reading, private organization can create survey benchmarks and, assuming they follow all the procedures for bluebooking them, get them in the NGS database. It is not unreasonable that some company owned by Morrow Industries might be in the business of wireless data transmission and wants to create some benchmarks for their convenience. Routine maintenance of the towers and the occasional major upgrade to the system (replacing the backup generator for example) would provide some camouflage. The number of sites can easily increase once the cellular startup, P-Morrow Cellular, begins growing out is own network of antennas so they don't have to rely on other carriers. This would allow a benchmark to be placed conveniently near any cache the Project desired.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Craig67

A packing list for sure, I would put in on the hard drive in the vehicle computer.

Something I've been thinking about are over the snow vehicles. I would want to run a campaign in the northern US/ southern Canada, so snow is an issue. The V150's have only limited ability in the snow (yes, even with chains on the tires) so a BV206 seems essential for each team in snow country. I would put this in a "super cache" with all the team's extra winter equipment.

Another idea is for each team to have a super sized reconstruction cache. This would have a large selection of reconstruction supplies and tools for issue to the locals.

The other four caches would be the standard resupply caches.

Play Operation Damocles...... Commando Scout and XR-311 with snow kits containing parkas and snow shoes.

[Craig67]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Play Operation Damocles...... Commando Scout and XR-311 with snow kits containing parkas and snow shoes.

2 really bad vehicles for winter use. I have Damocles, it was the first adventure I bought for TMP.
The winter clothing issue isn't bad, it was about the same stuff I was issued in the Canadian Army at that time, I survived plenty of time in the field with it. The group equipment needs some work, a gasoline stove with 24hrs of fuel ? You've got to be kidding ! Needs a proper winter tent with liner, a folding wood stove and a bow saw. Now you can keep the tent warm, melt snow/ ice for water, cook food and dry clothing.

[RandyT0001]

Originally Posted by Craig67

Needs a proper winter tent with liner, a folding wood stove and a bow saw. Now you can keep the tent warm, melt snow/ ice for water, cook food and dry clothing.

Wow, just make it easy on the team. How about some inflatable chairs for them to sit in while camping in the tent? The whole point of Morrow Project is to make the PCs suffer.

[Craig67]

Originally Posted by RandyT0001

Wow, just make it easy on the team. How about some inflatable chairs for them to sit in while camping in the tent? The whole point of Morrow Project is to make the PCs suffer.

Damocles is already a tough adventure, no sense adding frostbite and amputated fingers/toes to it.

Really though, would you send a team into a winter environment without the proper survival kit ?

[cosmicfish]

Updating has always seemed like a tricky business - not only is there the risk of exposure, but you are giving teams equipment they haven't been trained to use, potentially in a crucial and time-sensitive environment.

I think the best option would be to leave teams alone, then give updated gear to newer teams in the area - they have their own caches, plus the updated gear to disseminate to other teams (with training!) as prudent. If you are going to give them updated gear blind, it needs to be gear they can use without training. No point giving someone frozen in the 70's a tablet computer without someone to train them on it, but you could definitely give them a plug-and-play backend to the autonav.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Of course an alternative result maybe that teams get equipment removed from caches.

The project may decide it needs to concentrate certain key systems with other teams, or replace but not update.

I mean for example how many Dragon, TOW and Stingers were even made in the 1980s? So perhaps the project takes an executive decision to create a special MARS regional armoury with a dozen of each.

Which come from what the teams thought would be their equipment?

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Craig67

2 really bad vehicles for winter use. I have Damocles, it was the first adventure I bought for TMP.
The winter clothing issue isn't bad, it was about the same stuff I was issued in the Canadian Army at that time, I survived plenty of time in the field with it. The group equipment needs some work, a gasoline stove with 24hrs of fuel ? You've got to be kidding ! Needs a proper winter tent with liner, a folding wood stove and a bow saw. Now you can keep the tent warm, melt snow/ ice for water, cook food and dry clothing.

Like this?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Like this?

I will attest from personal experience..... that style of stove is just garbage. It is all riveted together and you can't get in and clean it. Ours was so fouled that it barely produced a flame even after building a tripod and hoisting the can almost 8 feet off the ground.

The round "Yukon" stoves are far, far better. Honestly, the whole drip fuel thing was a pain in the ass and I blame the regulators dribbling out diesel fuel. Stoke a Yukon with wood or coal and they will glow a nice cherry red.

I would give them the round Yukon or one of these THESE three dog or four dog guide stoves with a baker and water boiler. Early teams would get the Yukon and 90's or later the civvie stove based on availability.

Seriously, if you see a round Yukon for sale somewhere; snatch that baby up.

The only thing the "New" stove comes with that is good... the thermo electric fan. Set that directly on the stove and it will begin circulating heat.

We are talking about the Morrow Project though...... So you have a lovely fusion powersource parked outside. A high output electric heater will do just fine without diesel, kerosene, or firewood needing collected. Won't smother you with carbon monoxide while your sleeping either.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

We are talking about the Morrow Project though...... So you have a lovely fusion powersource parked outside. A high output electric heater will do just fine without diesel, kerosene, or firewood needing collected. Won't smother you with carbon monoxide while your sleeping either.

I think you still want the wood burner as well. After all, you may have set up a base camp with your tents and then want to take the boys ice fishing out of the turret of the V-150. The folks at camp still need to stay warm.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I will attest from personal experience..... that style of stove is just garbage. It is all riveted together and you can't get in and clean it. Ours was so fouled that it barely produced a flame even after building a tripod and hoisting the can almost 8 feet off the ground.

The round "Yukon" stoves are far, far better. Honestly, the whole drip fuel thing was a pain in the ass and I blame the regulators dribbling out diesel fuel. Stoke a Yukon with wood or coal and they will glow a nice cherry red.

I would give them the round Yukon or one of these THESE three dog or four dog guide stoves with a baker and water boiler. Early teams would get the Yukon and 90's or later the civvie stove based on availability.

Seriously, if you see a round Yukon for sale somewhere; snatch that baby up.

The only thing the "New" stove comes with that is good... the thermo electric fan. Set that directly on the stove and it will begin circulating heat.

We are talking about the Morrow Project though...... So you have a lovely fusion powersource parked outside. A high output electric heater will do just fine without diesel, kerosene, or firewood needing collected. Won't smother you with carbon monoxide while your sleeping either.

Sorry to hear that, base on my personal experience that style of Yukon stove is great, I never used the fuel drip burner for it. I was shown how to set it up but we always used wood for the stove as you use the stove without the fuel drip burner. It also sounds like your equipment was not well maintained, I am also wondering where were you using it ? Most of the current 5 man and 10 arctic tents (10 man shown above) you wouldn’t even need a yukon stove. I slept in a tent like that with only a two burner Coleman stove and lantern for heat and light, plus with the heat of ten bodies and a proper sleeping bag most teams should ok for any winter environment. Mind you we had to take shift watching the stove all night.

The problem with a high output electric heater is the size you might have a hard time fitting in the tents pictured above

Old Tech high output electric heater: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hv...ctric-heater-3

Current Tech high output electric heater: http://www.worldmkting.com/heavy-dut...utility-heater

The Current tech would work fine, but early time might not have them (FYI you would a platform to prevent it from sinking in the snow) and you need a few grounded extension cords/power cables to run it from the any vehicle.

Originally Posted by mmartin798

I think you still want the wood burner as well. After all, you may have set up a base camp with your tents and then want to take the boys ice fishing out of the turret of the V-150. The folks at camp still need to stay warm.

I agree fuel is not an option that’s why all project vehicles run on a fusion power source. Wood should be ok to find in most temperate climates. Coal too might available from local sources

For Base Camps, I image the project would have some sort of portable fusion power source for running a small camp????

I would also like to add the Volvo BM Bv 202 and Bandvagn 206 (Bv 206) would great use to any team operating in a snow environment.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Sorry to hear that, base on my personal experience that style of Yukon stove is great, I never used the fuel drip burner for it. I was shown how to set it up but we always used wood for the stove as you use the stove without the fuel drip burner. It also sounds like your equipment was not well maintained, I am also wondering where were you using it ? Most of the current 5 man and 10 arctic tents (10 man shown above) you wouldn’t even need a yukon stove. I slept in a tent like that with only a two burner Coleman stove and lantern for heat and light, plus with the heat of ten bodies and a proper sleeping bag most teams should ok for any winter environment. Mind you we had to take shift watching the stove all night.

I had always had the older 1950s round two piece Yukon stoves. The M-51 with multi fuel heater system in units upto 1999 with 101st MP Co. http://www.armytents.com/heaters.html

Remove the multi fuel unit and you had a wood or coal stove. Mix some gasoline into diesel to thin it and burn that through the multi fuel insert (ranges at the chow or warming tent).

Then I got to a unit that had this "new" stove. Tiny burn chamber for wood, can't remove the fuel burner to clean it. The only way to get it to burn hotter than a candle was to dump a pint of gasoline over the fuel burner and drop in some burning paper to light that. The chamber would then get hot enough to draw and atomize fuel at what was at best the low setting. Damn frustrating when a stove won't boil water. So this was the MP unit I went to Iraq with in 2003 and we used them in Dec 03, Jan-Feb 04 as nights got to 25F and even snow twice or more.

[Craig67]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Like this?

Now we're cooking

Add a Bv 206 to haul it and the team and winter sucks a lot less.

[Craig67]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

I think you still want the wood burner as well. After all, you may have set up a base camp with your tents and then want to take the boys ice fishing out of the turret of the V-150. The folks at camp still need to stay warm.

Agree. You may also have to send out a dismounted patrol. They will need that wood stove.

Someone also mentioned electric heaters. I would also add a hot plate per vehicle for general use.