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#1
08-13-2017, 06:19 PM
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Prime Base Security
How to protect Prime Base has been spoken on several threads. The purpose of this thread is to bring together these threads and determine a workable security plan.
EXTERNAL The module doesn't mention any external security other than the debris covering the entrance modules. IMHO, Prime doesn't require any bunkers defending these hatches, their concealment is their best protection until Prime goes active. The primary external defense of Prime lies in the hands of Combined Team NP-5. This team consists of the following: NP-50 Command Team: 5 personal in a V-150 APC NP-51 MARS Team: 12 personnel with a V-150/25mm and a V-150 Mortar Carrier NP-52 MARS Team: 18 personnel with a V-150/25mm, 2 V-150/HMG, GAL NP-53 MARS Team: as NP-52 NP-54 MARS Team: as NP-52 NP-55 MARS Team: 18 personnel with a V-150/25mm, 3 V-150/TOWs NP-56 Recon Team: 12 personnel with 3 HMMWV/HANgs Recon Teams NP-57, NP-58 and NP-59: as NP-56 NP-60 Engineering Team: 20 personnel with 2 V-150 APCs, 2 5-ton Dump Trucks with trailers, 2 M-9 DEVs The intent is to provide a Recon presence to cover the approaches to Prime, backed up with a large enough MARS presence to deter hostile forces. The team caches are loaded with ammunition, demolitions, heavy weapons and Medical supplies. NP-5 does not have the mission of assisting survivors. Instead they will direct survivors towards refugee camps that will be set up some 150 miles to the northeast. The refugee camp will be operated by another combined group.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. 
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#2
08-13-2017, 06:44 PM
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also why not the commando scout too? Quote:
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Air team with one OH-6 cayuse... need a speedy air scout.
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#3
08-14-2017, 08:30 AM
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This is what I get for typing something on a Kindle!
With ArmySGT kind contributions! Combined Group NP-5 consists of the following: NP-50 Command Team: 15 personnel with two V-150 command and two V-150 APCs. NP-51 MARS Team: 20 personnel with V-150/25mm, two V-150/81mm, two V-150 APCs converted into ammo carriers. NP-52, NP-53, NP-54 MARS Teams; each with 18 personnel, two V-150/25mm, two V-150 HMG/AGL NP-55 MARS Team; 18 personnel with one V-150/25mm, three V-150/TOWs, 2 V-150 APCs converted into ammo carriers. NP-56, NP-57, NP-58, NP-59 Recon Teams: 20 personnel with four HMMWVs carrying HMGs or AGLs NP-60 Engineering Team: 20 personnel with two V-150 APCs w/trailers, two 5-ton dump trucks w/trailers, one M-9 CEV, one SEE NP-61 Communications Team: 8 personnel with two V-150 APCs NP-62 Medical Team: 12 personnel with V-150 APC, three V-150 Ambulances NP-63 Aviation Team: 14 personnel with two HMMWV/HMG, 2 5-ton trucks, 2 Autogyros The intended "purpose" of NP-5 is to serve as a control point for refugees fleeing California. They are to monitor the refugees and direct them to the refugee center being set up to the northeast. Only the CO and XO of NP-5 are aware that the real mission is to monitor movement around the location of a "secret base" and to undertake such measures as deemed necessary to protect this base. I decided not to go with a HAAM Suit team, as I wanted to make it appear to a hostile intelligence that this was simply a combined group "protecting" a refugee camp.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#4
08-14-2017, 08:48 AM
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I, needless to say, have several issues with the Prime Base module, especially with the Base Commander's decision to reach out assist survivors. This after all, is Prime Base! The headquarters of a nation-wide project dedicated to helping rebuild civilization!! So, lets crack open the doors and try to support refugees and disregard the rest of the Project...not a very bright idea! Perhaps the greatest failure of the module is that it tries to make the base smaller then it should, all alone in the desert. Prime Base, by its very nature should have external teams to perform the assist mission, as well as MARS teams to defend the most critical part of the Project!
I've already posted my views on external protection with Combined Group NP-5, now for.... INTERNAL The Prime Base Module (hereafter PBM) describes a blockhouse to one side of the base that houses a decontamination facility that walks the team though several points and leaves them, minus their equipment (unless they sneak it through the decon process), and wearing only underwear, orange coveralls and tennis shoes, facing a security checkpoint. Once clearing security, the team enters a entry tunnel. The entry tunnel is described as running directly from the decon facility to Level One in the Operations tunnel. The tunnel is 100 meters in length, for its first 30 meters, the floor slopes down at a steepish angle with a total drop of two meters. For the next 70 meters, the tunnel slopes gradually upwards for a meter so that the tunnel finishes up at the entrance to Ops, roughly 51 meters underground. The tunnel has a width of 2.6 meters and the height averages 2.5 meters. The intent of this is to force people to walk the length of tunnel and allow them to be visible form Post One in Ops for the final 70 meters of their travel. The slope also prevents anyone from rolling something unpleasant into Post One. Post One sits at the end of the entry tunnel and is the first part of the Security Complex that guards this entrance. In PBM,the post has a wall facing the tunnel, described as ahving windows set at waist height and running almost to the ceiling (made of bulletproof glass/Lexan some 4-inches thick) and with the lower portion of the wall fronted with armor plate sufficient to provide protection from .50 HMG fire as well as hand grenades. Mounted below the windows are two remote-controlled machine gun turrets, each mounting two GPMG and covering the exposed portion of the tunnel.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#5
08-14-2017, 08:54 AM
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Issues and modifications..
The only issues I have with the tunnel is that I would include steel grills at 2-3 points on the final "uphill" leg, these of course, can be used to block movement forward. I would also install roof and floor mounts for Claymore mines, just for those special moments, For Post One, I disagree with the window portion, I would go with portholes and armor the entire front to withstand LAW/RPG fire. As for the gun turrets, replace one GPMG with a laser or flamethrower.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#6
08-14-2017, 09:01 AM
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Throughout PBM, we have very little breakdown concerning exactly who was stationed in Prime Base. While I do understand that with the people dying, it is a moot point, but still...
As written, PBM has three cylinders, in discussions on this board, it has been pointed out that a five cylinder base would be better able to provide the support needed for a national base. I would propose a MARS Team for each cylinder, numbering in the 20-30 personnel range and charged with providing the necessary security, they can also have a secondary function as the fire service, in needed. In addition, I would place a MARS Team equipped with HAAM Suits (12-18 strong) as well as an Aviation Team equipped with 4 AH-1 Cobras. I normally don't go with the Morrow Air Force concept, but because this is Prime Base, there may arise a need for dedicated air support. I went with Cobras because they are available in several countries and thus more likely for a international arms dealer (part of Morrow Industries, of course) to lay their hands on.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#7
08-14-2017, 12:23 PM
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1. For the Fire Service have three full time firefighters, they conduct fire safety inspections and train the base's auxiliary fire unit. Remember the MARS team will trying to keep the base secure and if a fire starts because of an attack the MARS has stop the attack not fight fires. 2. Medical, have base personel trained as first responders this will reduce the need of large ammounts of medical personal. Prime would a small medical clinic that would have trained staff. First responders stabilize and transport an injured party there. 3. Engineering Team, Communications Team, Artillery, and APC’s? It’s a security force not a mechanized combined arms team. All those items and teams are needed if you’re planning to run a mission with a MARS team outside of the base but you’re not right? You would a few guys trained in demolitions for breaching operations maybe, but a dump trucks an M-9 CEV and a SEE? Why? Also why a Stinger team? Who has unfriendly air assets? Quote:
Remember if add vehicles and aircraft you’re going to have to add service personnel and a means to rapidly launch them too. Think a batcave set up for ground vehicles and an airwolf set up for aviation. You will also need workshop space for maintenance
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I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
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#8
08-14-2017, 07:50 PM
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#9
08-14-2017, 09:01 PM
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Diret fires needs more teeth than 25mm and 40mm AGL.
How about? Quote:
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#10
08-15-2017, 04:51 AM
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This all assumes the idea of the project having both a huge body of skilled and experienced soldiers and a huge body of high quality, hi tech military gear.
I'm not sure that was ever the case. In Desert Search they point out the project didn't even have night vision for its TOW launchers. MARS teams rarely seem to be more than 3 or so vehicles and maybe 20 people. This is suggesting that once you include support and maintenance staff the Project had something like 10% of its MARS teams just defending Prime base. That's before you even get into the space required for garaging the vehicles, bunkering the troops and storing the ammo. Even then assuming the threat level the project was up against; Warsaw Pact invaders, rogue battalions of the army, thousands of refugees then even a couple of dozen light armoured vehicles wouldn't have made much difference. This might be enough to defend an airfield in a war zone, but even then that's assuming you've got a lot of cavalries to come over the hill if really needed. More likely I'm guessing Prime's security would rely on the following. 1 Not being seen the Project got pretty good at hiding its resources. 2 Automated defences, again the various scenarios suggest a preference for robotic style gun emplacements, smart mine fields etc. 3 A completely separate security force and the kicker is probably not knowing what they were defending. The project seemed to have great strengths in both ruthlesness and secrecy in a noble aim.
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#11
08-15-2017, 09:18 AM
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NP-5 has two basic missions;
1. To set up a security screen that filters refugees (disarming the heavily armed ones at least) and then directing them to a refugee camp setup some 150 miles to the northeast. This is the mission brief as explained to the rank and file. 2. Only two members of the team (the CO and XO) are aware that NP-5's main mission is to screen a secret base in the area. They do not know the exact location. They are aware that they must monitor a special frequency for additional orders, but have no means of contacting the base.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#12
08-15-2017, 09:32 AM
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[QUOTE]1. For the Fire Service have three full time firefighters, they conduct fire safety inspections and train the base's auxiliary fire unit. Remember the MARS team will trying to keep the base secure and if a fire starts because of an attack the MARS has stop the attack not fight fires.[QUOTE]
If given this some thought, for normal circumstances, I believe that the Security Team would be trained as firefighters at least until a security alert was sounded. Normally, 6-8 personnel per cylinder as "full-time". [QUOTE]2. Medical, have base personel trained as first responders this will reduce the need of large ammounts of medical personal. Prime would a small medical clinic that would have trained staff. First responders stabilize and transport an injured party there.[QUOTE] Concur, but I would see the clinic as having some 30-40 specialists, nurses, lab techs. [QUOTE]3. Engineering Team, Communications Team, Artillery, and APC’s? It’s a security force not a mechanized combined arms team. All those items and teams are needed if you’re planning to run a mission with a MARS team outside of the base but you’re not right? You would a few guys trained in demolitions for breaching operations maybe, but a dump trucks an M-9 CEV and a SEE? Why? Also why a Stinger team? Who has unfriendly air assets?[QUOTE] NP-5 tries to follow a typical MARS/Recon Team in order to avoid giving the appearance of something "special". They have a handful of V-150s equipped with 81mm mortars and TOWs, most of their vehicles are the APC versions (which can also be configured for cargo carriers), armed with either a HMG or an AGL. There is a small number of cannon-armed V-150s and a slightly larger number of V-150s fitted with the HMG/AGL turret. Got a lot of HUMMWVs fitted with either a HMG or an AGL. Even their aviation asset only has a pair of autogyros. The Engineering team has the ability to move a limited amount of earth and dig emplacements/obstacles. I envision their use to be mostly restricting access around chokepoints, digging bypasses for damaged bridges/overpasses. [QUOTE]Will you can also go for Bell UH-1 Iroquois or Bell UH-1N Twin Huey, which is a commonly used aircraft by military and civilians you can add an Armament Subsystem if needed.[QUOTE] I went with a section of Cobras as part of Prime Bases' Aviation assets, I can certainly see a section or two of UH-1s rather than the OH-6s that come with PBM. Quote:
Remember that basically NP-5 operates on a blank slate as far as Prime Base goes. They may suspect something is in the area, but they do not know what or where.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#13
08-15-2017, 12:27 PM
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#14
08-15-2017, 06:30 PM
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#15
08-16-2017, 03:09 PM
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#16
08-17-2017, 01:57 PM
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Bunkers present an interesting paradox in that they are simultaneously the toughest and most vulnerable sites most forces have.
You can't pack them full of mouseholes to sally or sneak out of. Firstly because a bunker maybe behind hundreds of feet of granite or rebarred concrete that stuff is hard to dig through and if you dig enough holes you're also going to compromise the integrity of the whole structure. Not to mention any tunnel wide enough for a man to crawl through to get to the door, will allow somebody else to sneak back through. The doors however tough they are will stuff need to be able to move and thus will have weak spots such as hinges. Even if you were to come up with a truly impregnable fortress, then the kind of foes the Project were planning on would simply think, "hmm suspicious lets drop a largish nuke just to be sure." The trick would be to come up with a base that was both as bomb proof as possible, as life proof (e.g. people could live in it for decades with no contact with the outside world), defensible in a pinch and completely secret. Pretty tall order. As such I suspect the project would build a tough underground structure with automated defences. But at the same time would try and keep people away by "Scooby Dooing it" Creating an atmosphere that would keep meddling kids away. The easiest way would be set off a very small nuclear device the bunker could survive. Then maybe put together a security team designed to look like a terrifying gang of marauders. Or release zoo animals and put up signs indicating they were escapees from eccentric animal owning billionaire who couldn't take care of them after civilisation ended. The trick being to have a simultaneously impenetrable and uninteresting base.
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#17
08-20-2017, 12:32 PM
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Three Teams with 3XV300 (or LAV 25) APC with 25mm turrets and dismountable troops, so 18 dismountable MARS team members per team One team with 3XV150 with TOW One Team with 3XV150 mortar carriers This gives three maneuver elements (both mounted and dismounted) a base of indirect fire and a base of direct fire AT fire. The TOWS can be distributed instead of being kept together. The 81mm mortars will be of tremendous value in the rugged mountains that surround Prime Base. Each of the Teams includes a Stinger Missile Team as a basic load out for one of the team members. I have never been a MARS 1 fan but I can FINALLY see a possible role for one, if the concept and its armament is changed. First strip out all the fixed weapons except the claymores. The fixed MGs and mortars don't make any sense at all in any way. This leaves a pod, four large turrets and the small forward mortar turret. The flame guns don't make any sense either so they can go. The vehicle will now be optimized for indirect fire. I'd replace the flame turrets with 120mm indirect fire mortars turrets (developed right at the end of the 1980s). http://www.military-today.com/artill...tar_system.htm Keep the pod and replace the weapons with FOG-M fiber optically guided missiles. http://www.army-technology.com/projects/efogm/ These don't have the range of Maveric, but outrange TOW. The Bolt Rocket's should be discarded and Stingers should be always available. This gives a total of 1X81mm mortar, 2X120mm Mortars, 2 autocannon turrets (perhaps have these with a 25mm and a 7.62mm or a cannon and Stinger pods and a large pod with FOG-M and possibly Stingers. This changes the roll to a platform with a lot of indirect fire weapons capable of hitting targets within 15 or so KM up to and including aircraft and armor. I'm still not a big fan but the strange armament mix of the original is really hard to explain.
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