US Police Armored Vehicles

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Ok, let's say that the crips and bloods go nuclear on each other, and break out the really heavy stuff. How do you think the gov and local law enforcement would react?

For my money, contain them, constrict the perimeter, wait for one to get seriously short-handed, then start taking out anybody who showed colors.

Oh, yeah. Announce to the survivors that anyone wearing BOTH red and blue would be permitted to advance to an area where they could surrender, be photographed and be processed. Now THAT would cause a lot of soulsearching and quick negotiating or blowing away the nearest opposing color to get one of each. Plus, the photographic evidence of gang members' turncoating for a short-term advantage may not sit well with the true-believers in either gang, or with their street cred. Lots of PsyOps could prove effective and have long-lasting effects in defanging the gangs.

[bobcat]

honestly i would see it more plausible to see a rift and significant altercation between US gangs and mexican cartels. some unforeseen shift in the power dynamics such as new supply lines from china allowing gangs to secure alternative drug supplies which could lead the cartels to take some action which would kick off a significant confrontation.

following this line we would see the cartels with weapons procured from the mexican military(which is a known source of arms for many cartels) and their madmax style armored vehicles making gains against the gangs which would respond initially with IED's and whatever arms they have on hand and depending on how laterally diversified their new supply line is perhaps even warsaw pact issue anti-armor weapons.

this scenario would place the federal and state governments in a peculiar situation. support either side against the other would be political suicide, but the resources to respond in kind to both sides just aren't there. to completely ruin contingency planning the option of trying to ignore the situation would be untenable as civilian casualties and collateral damage mounts and as both sides begin absorbing smaller gangs and cartels in an effort to outman, outgun, and outflank their respective adversaries.

granted if such a scenario were to even become 'highly likely' the US Attorney General would quickly ready the surprisingly limited paperwork to suspend posse comitatus and allow federal military forces to assist in law enforcement activities(it has been done before with far less provocation). the interesting thing to consider is what if such an event occurred during the lead up to WW3? say a modified TW2013 scenario. LEA would have a clear case to request and possibly even receive last gen IFV's and anti-armor weapons. there would be a massive buildup of military power in police and even civilian hands as both agencies and civilians remember such an event would be concerned about it occuring again. this could radically change the prospects of an invasion from the south.

[Tegyrius]

In a strange intersection of worlds, the cartels are now getting into fuel theft:

https://www.reuters.com/investigates...-violence-oil/

- C.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by bobcat

this scenario would place the federal and state governments in a peculiar situation. support either side against the other would be political suicide, but the resources to respond in kind to both sides just aren't there. to completely ruin contingency planning the option of trying to ignore the situation would be untenable as civilian casualties and collateral damage mounts and as both sides begin absorbing smaller gangs and cartels in an effort to outman, outgun, and outflank their respective adversaries.

And just prior to the war, you end up with Border Police and border police departments kitted out like many West Berlin police units during the Cold War -- essentially light motorized infantry units. Delicious!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Similarly, several years ago an FBI San Antonio Field Office intelligence advisory strongly warned that the Sinaloa Cartel also had ordered its street enforcers to engage US law enforcement officers to protect cartel smuggling operations across the border into the United States.

It's well known to us in San Antonio that the East Side and China Grove are rife with Mexican Drug Gangs. And that they're spreading out into the rest of the city, and some of them even live in the Dominion (the absolute richest part of the city). And that they've recruited and are recruiting from the "regular" gangs in the city. And that if you're a white boy like me you don't want to get anywhere near the former Alazon Apache Courts housing development. Or pretty much any low-income housing development. In my neighborhood, tagging, the first sign of a gang forming, started about five years ago. And I'm not allowed to own even a BB Gun because they think that because I'm mentally ill I'll spend all my money amassing an arsenal and I could go postal somewhere any moment. That's the world I live in.

Sorry for getting preachy.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by TitusPullo

Having been in the 7th ID at the time of the riots. We were deployed to LA on that Saturday, I remember because we were on DRF1 and only aloud to travel 20 miles off the planet. Me and some of my buddies were getting ready to go out that night and party, but CQ had other plans. He had his runner come up and started yelling "Blue Bayonet!" So we were of course pissed and found out real quick we were heading to LA.

As I was in the divisional LRSD. We were part of the 1st troops in LA. Me and my platoon showed up on the tarmac wearing our war paint and had our cabbage patch tops on. We didnt get the memo stating no camo or helmets. Our 1st Sgt chewed us out. We got bullshit riot helmets when we got to LAX, but quickly put them in our rucks.

We were trucked over to a place called Huntigan park in LA, I thought it was a park not a freaking city, from there we were dispersed out into South Central. I loved it. We were hearing the rumors about anti tank and AA weapons but it was all talk.

I was a 203 gunner and the only 40 MM I was issued were star cluster, to be used in case our comms went down and we were in contact. Our SAW gunners were given only magazines, but our armorer, who was with us, hooked our gunners up with 6 drums each, just in case. LOL Then to really piss us off we got 3 or 4 CA NG assigned to us and not one of them had firing pins for there m16's, and had only two mags apiece. WTF, over. So our Armorer hooked them up with pins and spare mags.

We guarded a power substation for the duration, 7 days. The citizens welcomed us and even kept us supplied with coffee and donuts. Not one business was touched while we were guarding them.

As soon as we had our perimeter set up and established comms with Batt. we applied our war paint and boonies. The citizens and cops loved it but the shitbird gangbangers actually complained to the NG command, they laughed at em so we kept it on. The shitbirds were constantly probing us but we always had overwatch up and were constantly on 50% security the whole time. We always let them know they were number one when the came around 4 deep in the Impalas. Our ROE were not to have a mag in the weapon unless we had a deliberate act of aggression toward us or citizens. Yeah right. I asked our 1st SGT if we get into a firefight do we get a star on our CIBs. I was doing push up for an hour. But it was worth it It was my funnest deployment.

I love our political leadership sometimes. "Let someone else make the tough decisions, I have a fundraiser to go to."

I can't possibly express how pathetically, idiotically, moronically STUPID our leadership was to your unit at that time (and don't worry, it WILL happen again). I'm glad your unit had the courage and balls that our leadership apparently lacked completely at that time. I salute you and your fellow soldiers.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

...they not a danger once they have been fired.

Yes, but with a bit of skills and a few tools, you can make a decent improvised mortar with one of those tubes. That's why, in Vietnam, they began crushing all the expended rocket tubes they could recover from the battlefield under tracked armored vehicles -- the VC were doing just that with distressing regularity. You can also make a good canister-round-type boobytrap from one. And then the VC began to boobytrap the expended tubes left on the battlefield...

I got lucky on the timing of when I went to ROTC and into the Army. There were a lot of E7s, E8s, E9s, O5s, and O6s who were about to retire and willing to tell young pups like me about stuff they encountered in Vietnam -- stuff they might not have talked about to young troops like me at an earlier point in their careers.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

And just prior to the war, you end up with Border Police and border police departments kitted out like many West Berlin police units during the Cold War -- essentially light motorized infantry units. Delicious!

i think they would look more like current Brigade RSTA squadrons. after all they would lack the manpower of a full infantry unit and they would still have a large amount of ground to cover so i could see lots of surveillance equipment and light armored vehicles supporting squad level actions. you might see larger actions when a significant force is located and identified but those would be multi-agency.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

It's well known to us in San Antonio that the East Side and China Grove are rife with Mexican Drug Gangs. And that they're spreading out into the rest of the city, and some of them even live in the Dominion (the absolute richest part of the city). And that they've recruited and are recruiting from the "regular" gangs in the city. And that if you're a white boy like me you don't want to get anywhere near the former Alazon Apache Courts housing development. Or pretty much any low-income housing development. In my neighborhood, tagging, the first sign of a gang forming, started about five years ago. And I'm not allowed to own even a BB Gun because they think that because I'm mentally ill I'll spend all my money amassing an arsenal and I could go postal somewhere any moment. That's the world I live in.

Sorry for getting preachy.

I'd be "preachy" too. You DON'T have to be defenseless in your home though. I'd go "Medieval" with my defense. A good bow, sling, crossbow, or atlatl can kill just as effectively as a gun at short range and isn't prohibited/registered in most jurisdictions. I'd try to find a good bow with a 50lb draw weight and practice with it. An older fiberglass bow will run about $100 dollars and the practice counts as exercise. A sling can be carried very easily and ammo is readily available anywhere there are rocks. You can even make a "survival bow" using YouTube videos for reference.

When out, I'd carry a tactical Flashlight like the SureFire or Streamlight. You can "flash" a target and blind them but the flashlight also makes a GOOD IMPACT WEAPON. Using it like a Kubotan, you should strike for the bridge of the nose or throat with the Bezel to disable your aggressor. You then run/break contact if practical.

Projectile weapons are drastically "underestimated" in the Twilight2000 rules. I could see European towns arming their citizens with bows and crossbows for defense. These weapons can kill at short range every bit as effectively as guns and are easier to make and provide ammo for. the long tradition Europe has with medieval weapons would make this easier there. Imagine a dozen men armed with crossbows guarding a bridge taking turns firing while their partner reloads. If the opposing force doesn't have "overwhelming firepower," they may decide that town is too tough a nut to crack.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by bobcat

honestly i would see it more plausible to see a rift and significant altercation between US gangs and mexican cartels. some unforeseen shift in the power dynamics such as new supply lines from china allowing gangs to secure alternative drug supplies which could lead the cartels to take some action which would kick off a significant confrontation.

following this line we would see the cartels with weapons procured from the mexican military(which is a known source of arms for many cartels) and their madmax style armored vehicles making gains against the gangs which would respond initially with IED's and whatever arms they have on hand and depending on how laterally diversified their new supply line is perhaps even warsaw pact issue anti-armor weapons.

this scenario would place the federal and state governments in a peculiar situation. support either side against the other would be political suicide, but the resources to respond in kind to both sides just aren't there. to completely ruin contingency planning the option of trying to ignore the situation would be untenable as civilian casualties and collateral damage mounts and as both sides begin absorbing smaller gangs and cartels in an effort to outman, outgun, and outflank their respective adversaries.

granted if such a scenario were to even become 'highly likely' the US Attorney General would quickly ready the surprisingly limited paperwork to suspend posse comitatus and allow federal military forces to assist in law enforcement activities(it has been done before with far less provocation). the interesting thing to consider is what if such an event occurred during the lead up to WW3? say a modified TW2013 scenario. LEA would have a clear case to request and possibly even receive last gen IFV's and anti-armor weapons. there would be a massive buildup of military power in police and even civilian hands as both agencies and civilians remember such an event would be concerned about it occuring again. this could radically change the prospects of an invasion from the south.

In my Timeline, Mexico and Guatemala are "Narco-Puppet States" controlled by the Cartels. The US is actively pushing for a "regime change" in Mexico which prompts the Cartels to give AKs and RPGs purchased from Mexico's new friend/benefactor Russia (in exchange for much needed hard currency) to the drug gangs which are loyal to the Cartels. This "escalation" causes opposing gangs and local police to "up gun" as well. The ever more aggressive US policy towards Mexico forces the Cartels to start buying "big." T55Ms with reactive armor and thermal imaging, older MCLOS & SACLOS AT & AA missiles as well as other surplus AFVs. The Russians even send trainers (under the name "Division Cuba" to fool US intelligence agencies about its real objective) to aid the Cartels in resisting US attempts to overthrow their regime. The US-Mexican (and Guatemalan) war starts after the US seizes Mexican oil platforms in the Gulf and bombs her refineries to prevent the Russians from receiving Mexican assistance during the Twilight War.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

For my money, contain them, constrict the perimeter, wait for one to get seriously short-handed, then start taking out anybody who showed colors.

Oh, yeah. Announce to the survivors that anyone wearing BOTH red and blue would be permitted to advance to an area where they could surrender, be photographed and be processed. Now THAT would cause a lot of soulsearching and quick negotiating or blowing away the nearest opposing color to get one of each. Plus, the photographic evidence of gang members' turncoating for a short-term advantage may not sit well with the true-believers in either gang, or with their street cred. Lots of PsyOps could prove effective and have long-lasting effects in defanging the gangs.

LE already confiscates "colors" from both gangs and "outlaw motorcycle clubs" as the Supreme Court ruled (in a case against the Hell's Angels) that a club's colors can be tantamount to an "implement of crime." We also routinely process the "tatts" of known gang members as those "tatts" often form a "resume" of the perp's criminal history. There are books out there available to both LE and private citizens (for security officers) that detail what tatts and phrases mean so that you can "educate yourself" about people you may have to deal with on the street.

In my game, I allow either a "Streetwise" or "Forensics" test to identify these symbols as well as "tags" (graffiti that you find on gang turf).

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

When out, I'd carry a tactical Flashlight like the SureFire or Streamlight. You can "flash" a target and blind them but the flashlight also makes a GOOD IMPACT WEAPON. Using it like a Kubotan, you should strike for the bridge of the nose or throat with the Bezel to disable your aggressor. You then run/break contact if practical.

I'm guessing that what you call a Kubotan is what I call a Yawara. (I'm guessing we studied different martial arts.) I carry one of those flashlights in my pocket, and have several in the house and another in the car. They sell them by ton down at Walmart for a dollar apiece, so I can have plenty of them and if I break one, so what.

And unfortunately, I'm not allowed bows or crossbows. Not sure what Texas says about knives, however...I have an ornamental Wakizashi in my closet, and while it doesn't have much of a blade, it does have a wicked point.

[rcaf_777]

Here an M114 Command and Reconnaissance Carrier in police service

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Here an M114 Command and Reconnaissance Carrier in police service

Let's hope it is more functional in its current employ than it was when originally fielded.
What sheriff's dept is it serving in?

[rcaf_777]

It belong to Gwinnett County Sheriff Office in Georgia

Here some more info

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=770347

Shots of the inside

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=114627

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

It belong to Gwinnett County Sheriff Office in Georgia

Here some more info

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=770347

Shots of the inside

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=114627

I could see an APC working at a SWAT bash--for the M114, replace the 20mm autocannon with a .50 BMG Barrett Anti-Materiel gun with match ammo and lots of radar, light-intensifying, etc., sensors and such.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'm guessing that what you call a Kubotan is what I call a Yawara. (I'm guessing we studied different martial arts.) I carry one of those flashlights in my pocket, and have several in the house and another in the car. They sell them by ton down at Walmart for a dollar apiece, so I can have plenty of them and if I break one, so what.

And unfortunately, I'm not allowed bows or crossbows. Not sure what Texas says about knives, however...I have an ornamental Wakizashi in my closet, and while it doesn't have much of a blade, it does have a wicked point.

There is a ballpoint pen that does similar duty. Navy guys tell of making Monkey fist knots with large ball bearings as an improvised self defense weapons overseas.

[Draq]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'm guessing that what you call a Kubotan is what I call a Yawara. (I'm guessing we studied different martial arts.) I carry one of those flashlights in my pocket, and have several in the house and another in the car. They sell them by ton down at Walmart for a dollar apiece, so I can have plenty of them and if I break one, so what.

And unfortunately, I'm not allowed bows or crossbows. Not sure what Texas says about knives, however...I have an ornamental Wakizashi in my closet, and while it doesn't have much of a blade, it does have a wicked point.

Texas just recently passed a law basically permitting open carry of any freaking bladed weapon available. Swords, Spears, knive over 6' inches, switch blades, gladius, katana, Bowie knife, combat knife, etc...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Draq

Texas just recently passed a law basically permitting open carry of any freaking bladed weapon available. Swords, Spears, knive over 6' inches, switch blades, gladius, katana, Bowie knife, combat knife, etc...

Yeah, but the seriously mentally ill have different, more restrictive laws which apply to them. Believe me, I check them about four times a year, hoping that those (like me) who are stable on medication will be allowed to own firearms. (That's a bill that goes through the Texas legislature from time to time, always defeated so far.)

[Draq]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Yeah, but the seriously mentally ill have different, more restrictive laws which apply to them. Believe me, I check them about four times a year, hoping that those (like me) who are stable on medication will be allowed to own firearms. (That's a bill that goes through the Texas legislature from time to time, always defeated so far.)

I understand.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

There is a ballpoint pen that does similar duty. Navy guys tell of making Monkey fist knots with large ball bearings as an improvised self defense weapons overseas.

Schrade makes an affordable Tactical Pen that's not bad. It has a glass breaker too. As much as I love my SureFire Flashlights, I CANNOT bring myself to spend almost $200 on a titanium Tactical Pen.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'm guessing that what you call a Kubotan is what I call a Yawara. (I'm guessing we studied different martial arts.) I carry one of those flashlights in my pocket, and have several in the house and another in the car. They sell them by ton down at Walmart for a dollar apiece, so I can have plenty of them and if I break one, so what.

And unfortunately, I'm not allowed bows or crossbows. Not sure what Texas says about knives, however...I have an ornamental Wakizashi in my closet, and while it doesn't have much of a blade, it does have a wicked point.

I'd buy a $10 paracord Shepard's Sling (ReadyMan sells them). It WILL take LOTS of practice to become proficient but they do work. It looks like a bundle of cord and you can get "ammo" out of any stream or river. Just look for 300 to 400-gram stones that are smooth and oval-shaped. Keep it in your house with a good old-fashioned WOODEN baseball bat and a cheap baseball glove. Anyone who sees it will just assume you play and you won't be defenseless in your own home. You also have the best "biological burglar alarm" ever made in your dogs.

You might also check out the TASER PULSE. If you can carry the PULSE, remember to keep your receipt. The PULSE is designed to deliver a 30-second pulse so you can drop it and run. The manufacturer is claiming they will replace a PULSE used in self-defense if you have your receipt AND a police report. Unlike stun guns, tasers DO WORK without having to hit one of the 13 nerve bundles/pressure points on the body.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Schrade makes an affordable Tactical Pen that's not bad. It has a glass breaker too. As much as I love my SureFire Flashlights, I CANNOT bring myself to spend almost $200 on a titanium Tactical Pen.

I have a Smith & Wesson tactical pen. It's pretty solid.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

You might also check out the TASER PULSE. If you can carry the PULSE, remember to keep your receipt. The PULSE is designed to deliver a 30-second pulse so you can drop it and run. The manufacturer is claiming they will replace a PULSE used in self-defense if you have your receipt AND a police report. Unlike stun guns, tasers DO WORK without having to hit one of the 13 nerve bundles/pressure points on the body.

I actually don't know what the laws say about something like that. I can carry pepper spray -- seems like the Taser would be along the same lines. I'll have to go back to the city's and state's sites and look.