Version 4 of the game

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Jason Weiser

Guys,
Heard back from Modiphius Entertainment....Here is the text of their note.

Got the same message from the same person just a couple of hours ago.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Got the same message from the same person just a couple of hours ago.

well now we know who it wont be - and have a feeling Marc and Chris may wait till the fall announcement for who it will be -

[Legbreaker]

Anyone else got any bright ideas about who it is? Perhaps those behind 93 Games Studio got their shit together and are having a crack again?
Hey, it's as good a theory as anyone else's at this point!

[Olefin]

well whoever it is Chris writes for them - but got me who else he does stuff for - right now basically its anyone's guess - but since there are board members who have written for other companies we will see - probably we will have to wait and see if Chris or Marc lets out any more info

[Legbreaker]

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games
Also Paizo Publishing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paizo_Publishing
Catalyst Game Labs
https://www.catalystgamelabs.com

Chances are it's one of them, but who knows. Seems he gets around A LOT!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games
Also Paizo Publishing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paizo_Publishing
Catalyst Game Labs
https://www.catalystgamelabs.com

Chances are it's one of them, but who knows. Seems he gets around A LOT!

Oh damn!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let it be Catalyst Games.
One of my friends has been running a ShadowRun 5th Ed. game - we found the rules less useful than they could have been and started converting back to earlier editions.
Then we saw the plans for 6th edition and the members of the gaming group who have played the earlier editions have rejected 6th Ed. out of hand.

And as for the quality of the books for 5th Ed. - less than impressed. An index would work fine... assuming the page numbers in the index actually referred to the correct page numbers and assuming certain rules and concepts were not splashed over multiple pages that have no connection to each other.

[Ewan]

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Ewan

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

I hope Mongoose Publishing is not an option, every game of theirs that I have had any interest in the past they have stopped supporting.

[vihkr]

>Paizo

That would be effed up too: T2K d20 Pathfinder Edition
YIKES

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Oh damn!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let it be Catalyst Games.
One of my friends has been running a ShadowRun 5th Ed. game - we found the rules less useful than they could have been and started converting back to earlier editions.
Then we saw the plans for 6th edition and the members of the gaming group who have played the earlier editions have rejected 6th Ed. out of hand.

And as for the quality of the books for 5th Ed. - less than impressed. An index would work fine... assuming the page numbers in the index actually referred to the correct page numbers and assuming certain rules and concepts were not splashed over multiple pages that have no connection to each other.

I got roped into GMing a Shadowrun game by the DM who was running the 5e campaign in honor of the 30-year anniversary of Shadowrun. We ended going back to my 3e because his 5e was a "hot mess" to use. I have SIX SETS of d6s that I bought from Walmart and they weren't enough to play 5e with 4 players. I'm trying to transition the group AWAY from Shadowrun into Dark Conspiracy because the GDW D20 system is just easier to use than FASA's "Success system." The major issue with this system in a Twilight2000 setting would be the haphazard way it handles both explosives and automatic weapons.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by vihkr

>Paizo

That would be effed up too: T2K d20 Pathfinder Edition
YIKES

LOL. Merc Class with Dual Wielding Machineguns and the Rage FEAT! Whoohoo!

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I hope Mongoose Publishing is not an option, every game of theirs that I have had any interest in the past they have stopped supporting.

Their LEGEND system would be the most adaptable to a V1-like Twilight2000 but they are sloppy with their production values (I have Mongoose Runequest I and II as well as LEGEND). They would be open to 3rd party participation in game development but I have no idea what their guidelines are.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Compare that with the approach that Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy... they actively asked well known members of the Dark Conspiracy fanbase if they knew people who would like to contribute to the new edition (as well as asking them if they wished to contribute).

I need to pop into the Dark Conspiracy forum if I'm going to be running it as a new campaign. I wonder if Clockwork is still taking contributions to the game. I'd like to get my optics and spotting posts evaluated.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Ewan

Has Mongoose Publishing been thought off, they currently publish Traveller and 2300.

In my opinion I would like to see a return to the traditional cold war setting especially as it's the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down this year.

As for the African and Korean sourcebooks that have come out in the past couple of years are the gold standard and are miles betters than what GDW originally produced.

All in just my two cents worth.

Thank you for saying that- I bet Raellus really appreciates that as well!

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

LOL. Merc Class with Dual Wielding Machineguns and the Rage FEAT! Whoohoo!

well so much for realism

[Legbreaker]

On a somewhat related note, some of the people behind Leading Edge Games (which shut it's doors a few decades ago), i.e. the ones who published Phoenix Command, Living Steel, Aliens, Terminator, Lawnmower Man and Dracula (all based on the Phoenix Command system) are working on new products for Living Steel.

There have been a few delays due to real life, but work now proceeds at an accelerated rate. Here is the state of the current writing:

First draft sits at 60k words
Detailed outline for an additional 120k words
Rough outline for an additional 600-800k words
We have supporting material for story arcs beyond those outlined.

As mentioned before the original timeline from LS/DSR has been compressed to better support the novel format. Several other mechanisms have also changed as a result, although most other events and story elements remain the same.

Also, we're hoping to get something going with livingsteel.com (generously donated by Akos!) this year, although what the actual content will be has yet to be decided. If you have thoughts on what you'd like to see we'd be happy to hear them!

[therantingsavant]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Apparently he's done some work for Atlas Games... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Games

So I used to write for Atlas Games and I'd be surprised if they were involved given their product line and focus. I don't know a lot about Feng Shui mechanics or similar but they're not likely to be easily adaptable for a T2k setting so we can probably rule that one out...

[Legbreaker]

Given what products Chris has worked on in the past, I'm wondering why he's involved in this one? Doesn't really seem his thing....
And that doesn't bode well in my opinion, although that's just my opinion...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

...Clockwork Publishing took when deciding to produce a 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy...

I'm wondering if it's them behind the 4th ed T2K. Would make a lot of sense given they've already done most of the hard work tweaking the rules, and both games have always gone pretty much hand in hand with each other...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm wondering if it's them behind the 4th ed T2K. Would make a lot of sense given they've already done most of the hard work tweaking the rules, and both games have always gone pretty much hand in hand with each other...

As far as I can tell, Clockwork is not behind a 4th edition of T2k. It's never come up in conversation and it was new info for some of the other developers when I mentioned it in our online workspace.
Full disclosure time.
My name is Kevin O'Neill, I'm on the team at Clockwork Publishing (AKA Uhrwerk Verlag) developing the 4th edition of Dark Conspiracy.
I wasn't keen to disclose much about it so I never mentioned anything outright but it's why I've been gobbing off about the 4th edition all the time. Since the launch of the crowdfunder, I don't think there's now any restriction on me coughing up that I'm on the development team.

Originally Posted by swaghauler

I need to pop into the Dark Conspiracy forum if I'm going to be running it as a new campaign. I wonder if Clockwork is still taking contributions to the game. I'd like to get my optics and spotting posts evaluated.

Interestingly enough, one of the sections I've been assigned is surveillance devices so some optical devices fall under my tasks at least as far as equipment lists are concerned. I've asked for some clarification as far as weapons sights go but I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be part of a "catch-all" group such as Other Equipment.

The recruiting drive was started in the middle of 2018 and concluded in the last half of that year. They probably aren't looking for new team members but I've asked if they're interested and I'm just waiting on a reply.
Alternately I can submit your material for you if they're interested in just the submission (under your name so you get full credit) but in either case, I can't guarantee anything beyond them thinking about it.
I'll let you know once I know.

[Legbreaker]

Interesting.....
FYI, I'm writing the Anzac book in a way that will allow it to be used for DC as well with a few relatively minor tweaks. As I said before, the two games always seemed like siblings to me.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Interesting.....
FYI, I'm writing the Anzac book in a way that will allow it to be used for DC as well with a few relatively minor tweaks. As I said before, the two games always seemed like siblings to me.

Like most rpgs set in the real world, Australia gets a mention but doesn't get developed much beyond that.
In the first edition of Dark Conspiracy, there was barely a mention of Australia but there was a significant conclusion that could be drawn about the country from some flavour text early in the main book. It basically said, the Eastern Australian Air Force had nuked Melbourne but was refusnig to say why.
So, we have Australia split into at least two new nations with one of them being inferred (Eastern Australia) and this new nation has the ability to either acquire or make nuclear weapons - both of which require a committed government (but government none-the-less, see below). And we have a major infestation of the Dark corrupting enough of Melbourne that it was decided to "bomb it back to the stone age."
As an aside, I wrote an article building upon this that I'm hoping will make the next issue of The Dark Times ezine

In the case of 4th edition, at this current time in development, the country has suffered the loss of government (at federal, state & local levels) due to major infestations of Demonground in the major cities. Australia has become a nation of nomands as a result.
So there's little chance that any sort of unified "Australian" response to events within Australia would take place and basically no chance for events outside the country.
I'm hoping that will change in the final product because I see an Australia as a nation of nomads being unstustainable when there are no cities left to produce fuel & food. I'd like to see Australia given the sort of treatment that can be implied by the movies Mad Max and The Rover rather than the idea of it becoming Mad Max 2 & 3

However, in regards to your material, everything depends on the timeline.
Dark Conspiracy was traditionally "near future" and 1st Ed. was set around 2013-18 so for 4th Ed. you could imply anytime after about 2025.
Your material could be one of the final "Australian" actions that take place before the country goes down the gurgler. If significant numbers of Australian military forces had been deployed outside the country, there'd be insufficient numbers left to deal with the Demonground infestations.
And there'd be very little left for them to return home to but it would be an echo of T2k's Going Home with all the adventure potential of that.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

The recruiting drive was started in the middle of 2018 and concluded in the last half of that year. They probably aren't looking for new team members but I've asked if they're interested and I'm just waiting on a reply.
Alternately I can submit your material for you if they're interested in just the submission (under your name so you get full credit) but in either case, I can't guarantee anything beyond them thinking about it.
I'll let you know once I know.

You're more than welcome to take ANYTHING I've posted in this Forum and use it as needed. Feel free to convert it into whatever format you need as well. I feel I can trust most of the members of this forum (and I CANNOT say that about the majority of forums I post in). My hope is to see a "more complete" version of the V2.2 rules than GDW did initially.

I'm also interested in seeing a "universal" damage standard. Melee weapons should use multiple dice just like firearms do. I would use a Melee version of the Unarmed Combat formula to generate a number between 1 and 5 and use that as the NUMBER of Damage dice the character rolls. The TYPE of die should be based on the Weapon itself. Melee weapons should be every bit as dangerous as firearms within their reach. I would also see HTH damage rolled as multiple dice but treated as STUN Damage not killing damage. By having only one Damage system, you reduce confusion about how Damage works during play.

Lethality NEEDS to increase a bit too. You can do that by reducing HP per location though. I use;
Head = CON
Chest & Abdomen = CON + STR
Arms = 2 X STR + CON
Legs = 2 X CON + STR

This reduces each location to a low of 5 Hp up to a high of 15 Hp for a perfectly average character. This increases lethality WITHOUT making the characters "glass cannons."

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

You're more than welcome to take ANYTHING I've posted in this Forum and use it as needed. Feel free to convert it into whatever format you need as well. I feel I can trust most of the members of this forum (and I CANNOT say that about the majority of forums I post in). My hope is to see a "more complete" version of the V2.2 rules than GDW did initially.

I'm also interested in seeing a "universal" damage standard. Melee weapons should use multiple dice just like firearms do. I would use a Melee version of the Unarmed Combat formula to generate a number between 1 and 5 and use that as the NUMBER of Damage dice the character rolls. The TYPE of die should be based on the Weapon itself. Melee weapons should be every bit as dangerous as firearms within their reach. I would also see HTH damage rolled as multiple dice but treated as STUN Damage not killing damage. By having only one Damage system, you reduce confusion about how Damage works during play.

Lethality NEEDS to increase a bit too. You can do that by reducing HP per location though. I use;
Head = CON
Chest & Abdomen = CON + STR
Arms = 2 X STR + CON
Legs = 2 X CON + STR

This reduces each location to a low of 5 Hp up to a high of 15 Hp for a perfectly average character. This increases lethality WITHOUT making the characters "glass cannons."

Unfortunately I don't have any input into the damage rules, that's someone else's assignment.
The Dark Conspiracy 4th Ed. rules are based on the D20 system used for 1st Ed. Dark Conspiracy (which in all practical terms made it version 1.1) and for DC 2nd Ed.
"Based upon them" but with some differences and the overall aim has been to streamline them and overhaul Initiative and a few other points here and there but keep the base compatible with earlier versions so old hands feel familiar with it and it makes conversion of older materials easier.

So a more comprehensive version of V2.2 it probably won't be.
As for reducing hit points, I pitched that one to the team because I was using almost the same system for my own games that you have used. I also did the work on melee weapons but it was based on the damage system from the previous editions with the understanding that whatever rules changes are decided upon for damage will be applied to the melee weapon stats so that they are updated to the 4th Ed. standard.
The rules team have one approach they're working on regarding damage in all its forms but they are looking at various ideas. Whether PCs have reduced hit points or not in the final product or whether there is a more unified damage system, it's too soon for me to know.

[Cdnwolf]

Anybody ask Smokewolf since he worked on Twl2013 for 93 Games Studio and might know what's going on with the licence?

[EvilvonScary]

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by EvilvonScary

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

I agree with you completely - Paul, myself and Raellus have a very public presence out there and could have been easily contacted - and you would think they would be looking for writers - especially with so many of the original canon writers no longer active. And Paul's site is literally a gold mine for anyone who writes for the game - heck I cited it in my module as a way to avoid having to take a bunch of pages to detail out vehicles and equipment that he has already taken great pains to do so.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by EvilvonScary

Seems like almost everyone Ive thought of as keeping T2K alive (new module/source book writers, Paul M, this place, etc) were completely cut out of the process for version 4. Sure I get business is business but when it comes to RPGs etc its a very niche market and niche products need to be engaged with its community. Not feeling that engagement at all. Heck kick-starter (etal) campaigns give more information to the public than what were getting.

My pages even say that future writers of versions of Twilight may use the information on my pages, freely!

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

My pages even say that future writers of versions of Twilight may use the information on my pages, freely!

Yup - thats why I have that in my release

"Please refer to any of the several different vehicle sourcebooks that have been released for Twilight 2000 and its various editions for details of the vehicles, aircraft and weapons used in this sourcebook.

Another excellent source for stats and information on new vehicles, small arms and artillery not previously mentioned in those sourcebooks (for instance the Casspir APC) would be the http://www.pmulcahy.com site which is a veritable treasure house of information for the Twilight 2000 game"

[Legbreaker]

It's the best unofficial site anywhere in existence for the game. So good it might as well be official!