T2K Fortification

[swaghauler]

[QUOTE=Vespers War;84962]It would probably be less fully restored or restored significantly differently in the T2K timeline. The earliest reconstruction work dates back to the 1950s, but the fascine battery, outer retrenchments, and lower historic area structures were built in the mid to late 1990s.


I know. I was there for most of it as this is a favorite "haunt" of mine. I agree that most of the buildings would be "restored" differently (Hesco construction anyone?) but a lot of the excavations were done in time for the Twilight War.

One interesting feature of the Fort is the large "assembly area" on the higher hill above the batteries. This wasn't supposed to be a large open area. The French planned on building a "fortified manor house" like those found at Fort Niagra and other older NW US forts. These structures would include a large meeting/gathering hall as well as a very nice residence for a "lord" or "administrator." They were primarily used as a "seat of government" and meetings and trials would be held there. The upper stories would be living quarters for the person in charge of that region. The fort was abandoned by the French before a "government house" was erected there.

I could see a commanding watch tower being built there in 2000.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Raellus

*Panzerstellung featuring obsolete tank turrets armed with MGs and light canon (Tobruks, I think they were called) were constructed and employed earlier in the war (like in some of the Atlantic Wall defenses). I know that in some parts of the Soviet Union and Switzerland, of all places, obsolescent tank turrets were emplaced in fixed fortifications defending strategic passes and such. -

Source is War Department Technical Manual TM-E 30-451 Handbook on German Forces.

Tobruk started out as an Italian fortification. In its most basic configuration, it was an open, circular pit lined with reinforced concrete with a neck-like opening at ground level. They vary in size, depending on the weapon mounted, but the diameter of the neck is kept as small as possible to reduce the risk of direct hits. Of intrest are the instructions to not build a concrete roof, as this will reveal the position to the enemy. A board of irregular shape, used as a lid, camouflages the circular opening and keeps out the rain.

There were three versions of the Tobruk:
The Type 58C (Ringstand) is the most common. It is a rectangular box measuring 12'2" long by 7'8" wide and 8'2" high. It consists of a lower ammunition magazine with an open entrance. The upper chamber has a metal ring mount for a MG34/MG42 machinegun that provides a 360 degree arc of fire.

The Type 61A was a mortar emplacement (for the 50mm light mortar). It had a larger open mount due to a concrete post in the middle (to mount the mortar). In this version, the ammo magazine was offset to one side.

The final version is the Panzerstellung. This was modified to mount the turret from a French Renault 35 tank.

Of interest when you look over the larger German fortifications, you will often note one or two Type 58C Tobruks that provide an observation/mg post to cover the top or entrance of the emplacement.

[dragoon500ly]

forgot to include the link for the German Army Handbook, the fortification information and sketchs are in chapter six.

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Germany/HB/HB-1.html

[Southernap]

So out in the Pacific Northwest there are the remains of the US Coastal Defense Forts Casey, Worden, Columbia, Worden

All of which might be repurposed for use during the Twilight War.

Similarly, I haven't see anyone mention the numerous Flaktrum's that are in Austria and Germany. All of which unless they were ground zero probably still exist and may have been repurposed during the Twilight War.

As well I know in a numerous locations out west in the US there are block houses made out of wooden or stone (depending on your region). These usually had stocks of arms, powder, bullets, and food for folks to retreat to and defense themselves from hostiles in the region. One would assume that these would see a revival in a number of towns both in the US and Europe to defense against marauders. Granted these might not stand up against heavy arms like mortars or armored vehicles. That said, they still might be valuable to some locations as places to hide out and run off to when marauders come into town.

[dragoon500ly]

Came across an interesting book titled "Fortress Europe, European Fortifications of World War Two" by J.E. Kaufmann and R.M. Jurga.

This gives an overall of the prewar defences that covered Europe, including:
The French Maginot Line.

The German East Wall, West Wall, and the Baltic Sea Coast Defenses

The Belgian Liege and Namur Defenses, the Albert Canal Line, Antwerp's Defenses and the national Redoubt, the KW line, and the Coast Defenses.

The Netherlands Grebbe Line, Fortress Holland, and the Frontier Lines.

The Swiss Army Position and Border Line and the National Redoubt.

The British Coastal Defences, the Stop Lines as well as the defences of Gibraltar and Malta.

The Italian Vallo Alpino, the Coast Defenses, and the Island Defenses.

Scandinavia, including the Danish Coastal Defenses, the Norwegian Forts and Coastal Defenses, and the Swedish Coastal Defences and Fortress Boden.

The Czechoslovakian Maginot or Benes Line, and the Slovak Defenses.

The Polish Eastern Border, Western Border, and Coastal Defenses.

The Yugoslavian Italian Front, German Front, Hungarian Front, and Coastal Defenses.

The Balkans including the Metaxas Line and Forts, the Carol Lines, the Romanian Fortifications, and the Turkish Straits.

The Finnish Mannerheim Line, the Salpa Line, and the Coastal Defenses.

The Soviet Stalin Line, the Molotov Line, and the Coastal Defenses.

And finally, The Atlantic Wall.

Includes details on the design, weapons, black and white photos, as well as numerous line drawings to wet your appetite!!

[Southernap]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Came across an interesting book titled "Fortress Europe, European Fortifications of World War Two" by J.E. Kaufmann and R.M. Jurga.

The book at Amazon

For those that want to add to their reference stash.

[Raellus]

Great resources, gents. Thanks for sharing.

Osprey Publishing's Fortress series has some interesting volumes that are germane to T2k. I can speak to a couple specific examples.

Fortress 11: Crusader Castles of the Teutonic Knights (1) AD provides a great overview of castles in Poland, many of which are located on the banks of the Vistula. I used it to build encounters for a Pirates of the Vistula PbP campaign, and to write the Rook's Gambit adventure module (link in my sig).

Special Forces Camps in Vietnam 1961–70 (Fortress) is a good resource for GMs wishing to include fortifications that one might expect to encounter around cantonments of around company to battalion size.

Other titles cover some of the fortifications previously mentioned by other posters in this thread.

[dragoon500ly]

Another excellent resource is "Fortress Third Reich" by J.E. Kaufmaan, H.W. Kaufmann & Robert M. Jurga

This work covers the post-Franco-Prussian War, the Great War, Second Reich and Reichswehr, the pre-war Wehrmacht, the WW2 Wehrmacht (including the coastal fortifications, air-raid defenses, Herr Schekengrubers Command and Control bunkers, info on the armored trains, the U-Boat Pens, der Atlantic Wall, the V-1 and V-2 sites and some very interesting appendices that included the armored parts of German fortifications; the concrete specifications, specifics from a German evaluation of the effects of bomb and heavy naval guns on the Atlantic Wall.

Should still be available on amazon!

[Raellus]

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-w...8a51975e09a4b7

"For now, that means assembling prefabricated materials into underground shelters using a Soviet-era design. They have already shipped 123 of the 2-meter (6 1/2-foot) -wide, 6-meter (20-foot) -long structures structures to areas that include eastern Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk provinces. Each shelter requires nearly 2 tons of steel. The bunkers are built to withstand projectiles with calibers of up to 152 millimeters, can accommodate up to six soldiers and need to be buried 1.5 meters (about 5 feet) underground." (Emphasis added.)

Unfortunately, the article doesn't contain any useful images of said pre-fab bunkers. I'd love to see a schematic.

In the T2kU, I'd reckon the Soviets would have seeded scores, if not hundreds, of these bunkers across Poland during NATO's initial push east.

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[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Raellus

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-w...8a51975e09a4b7

"For now, that means assembling prefabricated materials into underground shelters using a Soviet-era design. They have already shipped 123 of the 2-meter (6 1/2-foot) -wide, 6-meter (20-foot) -long structures structures to areas that include eastern Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk provinces. Each shelter requires nearly 2 tons of steel. The bunkers are built to withstand projectiles with calibers of up to 152 millimeters, can accommodate up to six soldiers and need to be buried 1.5 meters (about 5 feet) underground." (Emphasis added.)

Unfortunately, the article doesn't contain any useful images of said pre-fab bunkers. I'd love to see a schematic.

In the T2kU, I'd reckon the Soviets would have seeded scores, if not hundreds, of these bunkers across Poland during NATO's initial push east.

-

I haven't seen a schematic, but mil.in.ua has a series of images of one being installed.

Also an option would be the much smaller Russian hard points from this Twitter thread that were being transported in pairs on 6x6 trucks.

And in reference to the wooden blockhouse that Southernap posted a few years ago, there's at least one reconstructed one on the East Coast - Fort King George in Darien, Georgia was rebuilt in 1988. Its wooden walls are 4 inches thick

[Raellus]

Thanks for the links, VW.

This site has a ton of pics of Soviet 'Monolith' nuclear bunkers in Poland and the former East Germany. There's also map of other sites throughout Europe.

https://www.sightraider.com/soviet-m...-FNvqzztT5ToMA

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[Raellus]

This article is so nice, I had to post it twice (it's also in the Ukraine War thread).

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKR...E/mopakddwbpa/

It features maps, satellite images, diagrams, and sketches of Russian defenses in Ukraine.

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[The Zappster]

Great article. Shows how little warfare has changed for the "poor bloody infantry" dispute multi million dollar missiles.

[Homer]

Digging out the old diagrams of the Soviet bear claw positions and their obstacles belts, it’s beginning to look familiar. As always, time favors the defender.

Rolling back the security zone, breaching, and clearing defensive positions is one of the most complex combined arms endeavors there is. Even with PGMs, MICLICs, and mounted breaching there will be a requirement at some point for bayonet and grenade work.

Of course, a poorly built defense can be a trap for the defender. Like all things, its attention to detail and rehearsal. That requires leadership which may be in short supply.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by The Zappster

Great article. Shows how little warfare has changed for the "poor bloody infantry" dispute multi million dollar missiles.

Well, you still got to go places and be there to make stuff happen. Stopping people from doing that is the only way to defend territory.

[Raellus]

For Sweden-based campaigns, check out Boden Fortress. It was built in the early 20th century to defend against an attack from Russia. It was in use until the early 1990s, IRL (the last bit that was used was decommissioned in 1998!). Apparently, Sweden's gold reserves were stored inside Boden Fortress at one point.

https://www.spottinghistory.com/view...oden-fortress/

The website also provides links to info on other fortresses and castles in Sweden.

Here's an unofficial "tour" (no narration) posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ddr-IJbOGI

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[Homer]

In the US and some of its current and former possessions, there are numerous coast artillery positions that are still extant around major port cities and key waterways. Some of the later era (Endicott and Taft period) fortifications were built tough with steel reinforced concrete structures while even the earlier fortifications have masonry walls and all have ravelins, outer works, and hardened or buried magazines. Most of the later forts began closing their doors in the 40s, with some remaining in service into the Nike-Hercules era in the 60s and 70s before shuttering. A few were incorporated as non-functional items into subsequent military installations.

Going into T2K, some of the ones in better condition include Fort Monroe, VA; Fort Kamehameha (Hickam AFB) and Fort Ruger (Diamond Head/Fort Ruger State Military Reservation), HI; Fort Baker (Presidio of San Francisco), CA; Fort Jay (USCG Governor’s Island as mentioned in Armies of the Night), NY; Fort Trumbull (Naval Underwater Systems Center) (and associated fortifications on Fisher’s Island and Tern Island), New London, CT; Fort Niagara, NY; Fort McHenry, MD; The Harbor Defenses of Boston; Fort Terry (Plum Island), NY; and Fort Vancouver, WA. It’s doubtful they are serving their original role, but they all provide fairly defensible structures, many of which would have survived nuclear explosions quite well and all of which would pose a challenge to direct attack by a post TDM force.

Most have their own water supplies, some have generators (especially the Taft area forts), and all have either hardened barracks built into the structure or a cantonment area with barracks, etc (most of the “fort” part of Fort Niagara is a post civil war area administrative post with brick Barack’s and support structures). Because they were all designed to be defensible (and the separate batteries and facilities were also designed to be defensible) with a minimal sized force to enable the bulk of the garrison to work the guns, they could be a good refuge for a party and their allies or a decent base of operations.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Homer

In the US and some of its current and former possessions, there are numerous coast artillery positions that are still extant around major port cities and key waterways. Some of the later era (Endicott and Taft period) fortifications were built tough with steel reinforced concrete structures while even the earlier fortifications have masonry walls and all have ravelins, outer works, and hardened or buried magazines. Most of the later forts began closing their doors in the 40s, with some remaining in service into the Nike-Hercules era in the 60s and 70s before shuttering. A few were incorporated as non-functional items into subsequent military installations.

Going into T2K, some of the ones in better condition include Fort Monroe, VA; Fort Kamehameha (Hickam AFB) and Fort Ruger (Diamond Head/Fort Ruger State Military Reservation), HI; Fort Baker (Presidio of San Francisco), CA; Fort Jay (USCG Governor’s Island as mentioned in Armies of the Night), NY; Fort Trumbull (Naval Underwater Systems Center) (and associated fortifications on Fisher’s Island and Tern Island), New London, CT; Fort Niagara, NY; Fort McHenry, MD; The Harbor Defenses of Boston; Fort Terry (Plum Island), NY; and Fort Vancouver, WA. It’s doubtful they are serving their original role, but they all provide fairly defensible structures, many of which would have survived nuclear explosions quite well and all of which would pose a challenge to direct attack by a post TDM force.

Most have their own water supplies, some have generators (especially the Taft area forts), and all have either hardened barracks built into the structure or a cantonment area with barracks, etc (most of the “fort” part of Fort Niagara is a post civil war area administrative post with brick Barack’s and support structures). Because they were all designed to be defensible (and the separate batteries and facilities were also designed to be defensible) with a minimal sized force to enable the bulk of the garrison to work the guns, they could be a good refuge for a party and their allies or a decent base of operations.

Piping up solely because I've been there a number of times, Fort Monroe does not have its own water supply. The Army kept trying, but after a 2,248 foot deep well still only drew saline water, they gave up and had water shipped to the fort. That part of the Chesapeake got smacked by a bolide ~35 million years ago that disrupted all the aquifers. One other problem with Monroe is it's a stinking huge fort by enclosed fort standards - the area inside the walls is 63 acres, and those walls are 1.3 miles. By comparison, Fort McHenry has 2 acres inside its walls. You'd need a lot of people to adequately cover those walls, and those people will need a lot of water brought in to Monroe.

I'd also add Fort Washington (MD) to the list. The existing masonry fort dates to 1824 but was kept in decent shape because it was a staging area for units being assembled for World War One and was the Adjutant General's School in World War Two before being transferred to Interior. There are also ten Endicott Batteries that were built there, ranging from a pair of 3" quickfire guns to a battery of eight 12" mortars, although the batteries I saw nearest the fort are in rough shape. There's also a large marina within rifle shot of the fort with 300 slips from 25' to 50' that could be useful. There aren't any useful guns there (some preserved smoothbores only IIRC), but the site would still have good potential.

[Homer]

Yep- I see that now. Apparently Monroe had shallow wells and cisterns which met peacetime requirements but were unsuitable for the increased garrison during the ACW. Looks like they actually established an outer work during the ACW solely to ensure they could draw fresh water. Post war, the eventually began buying municipal water. Yeah, that’s bad, unless you can snag a ROWPU and a connex full of spares from the 92W course at Fort Lee. Maybe it’s a place that gets abandoned as surviving forces coalesce around Eustis/NWS Norfolk and Little Creek/Oceana?

Good call on Fort Washington. It always seemed like a well designed place. And in good repair. I actually got the idea of people going to old coastal fortifications after exploring some of the remaining Taft era forts and seeing how well they were built as defensive works, but also how they were generally intended to be semi autonomous for short periods. Places like Fort Washington seem like just the type of location a force could establish an outpost or base of operations, being reasonably secure, putting a roof over your head, and normally (unless you’re the geniuses who surveyed Fort Monroe!) close to or on water. Great locations for everything from the local MILGOV/CIVGOV/NA unit trying to exert control, the local militia post, a survivor community, to a marauder/pirate lair.

[Homer]

One historic fort that could be occupied and worked into a number of adventures is Fort Frederick in Big Pool, MD. It’s an FIW curtain wall that’s been rebuilt and maintained as a state park. Not much else except a few structures and the state museum. But, it’s got a large cleared area around it, and ample resources for reverting, building fighting platforms, etc.

The fort sits very close to the upper Potomac and about 1500m south of I-70. Originally constructed as a base for patrols in the Potomac water gap area, it could easily do the same today.

The fort itself lies in the no-man’s land area between NA and the CIVGOV enclave around Frederick. Could be controlled by either side, or taking control of it and extending control over/blocking an easy route through the hills could be a small adventure on its own.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Homer

One historic fort that could be occupied and worked into a number of adventures is Fort Frederick in Big Pool, MD. It’s an FIW curtain wall that’s been rebuilt and maintained as a state park. Not much else except a few structures and the state museum. But, it’s got a large cleared area around it, and ample resources for reverting, building fighting platforms, etc.

The fort sits very close to the upper Potomac and about 1500m south of I-70. Originally constructed as a base for patrols in the Potomac water gap area, it could easily do the same today.

The fort itself lies in the no-man’s land area between NA and the CIVGOV enclave around Frederick. Could he controlled by either side, or taking control of it and extending control over/blocking an easy route through the hills could be a small adventure on its own.

Frederick would need a fair bit of work (I've been there a few times as well). The walls themselves are thin. It was assumed nobody could transport artillery that deep into the continent overland, which was true at the time. The bastions are 4.5 feet thick at the base (AV 8 or 9), while the walls between the bastions are 3 feet thick at the base (AV 5 or 6)

It did have small artillery pieces transported upriver, but the gun platforms were timber and dirt constructions inside the walls which no longer exist. There's currently no way to the top of the walls, which are partially original and partially rebuilt by the CCC in the 1930s. Dirt platforms/ramps could be built, but that's going to be a lot of work.

There are two reconstructed barracks buildings used as a museum (one to appear as the original would have, the other with displays of the fort's history), while a third barrack has had its foundation outlined but has not been rebuilt. There's only one gate, so it would be fairly easy to pen people up inside the fort and because of the wall design difficult to get a good view to guide indirect fire onto targets outside the fort. There also aren't any embrasures for firing out of the fort while within its walls. If you want to shoot someone outside the walls, you either have to shoot over the wall or be outside the fort yourself.

It's better than nothing as far as a shelter from lightly-armed raiders, but it's not going to stand up to any sort of heavy combat.

[dragoon500ly]

Here's an interesting link to a paper concerning the background of Civil War (American) fortifications:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA313032.pdf

This is of interest due to the large number of field fortifications left over form the war, and still reusable to varying degrees.

[Homer]

Originally Posted by Vespers War

It's better than nothing as far as a shelter from lightly-armed raiders, but it's not going to stand up to any sort of heavy combat.

Yep. As a place to fight from Frederick leaves a lot to be desired. You’d need to rebuild the gun platforms and/or a firing step, and probably add a glacis outside. That said, the location still makes it suitable for its original use as a kind of “super patrol base” and there’s enough local material and land to do defensive improvements and to build outerworks.

The walls themselves aren’t much good for defense, but they do provide shelter and protection, and there’s enough space inside for mortar pits or extemporized shelter.

Could almost see it as the basis of a hardened redoubt, serving as a harbor for squad sized patrols into and out of the area.

For forts suited to actual fighting platforms against modern weapons, I’d be stretched to call most of the stuff on the interior of the US suitable. Even the modern hardened facilities weren’t designed with that use in mind.

[Vespers War]

Originally Posted by Homer

Yep. As a place to fight from Frederick leaves a lot to be desired. You’d need to rebuild the gun platforms and/or a firing step, and probably add a glacis outside. That said, the location still makes it suitable for its original use as a kind of “super patrol base” and there’s enough local material and land to do defensive improvements and to build outerworks.

The walls themselves aren’t much good for defense, but they do provide shelter and protection, and there’s enough space inside for mortar pits or extemporized shelter.

Could almost see it as the basis of a hardened redoubt, serving as a harbor for squad sized patrols into and out of the area.

For forts suited to actual fighting platforms against modern weapons, I’d be stretched to call most of the stuff on the interior of the US suitable. Even the modern hardened facilities weren’t designed with that use in mind.

Sure, it's just that Frederick's walls are really thin. Fort Monroe is 10 feet. Castle Williams on Governors' Island is 8 feet. The Castillo de San Marcos is 14 feet of coquina. Even Fort Washington is 7 feet, albeit mostly brick with a stone entrance. I suspect Frederick's 3-to-4.5-foot walls could be breached by infantry-carried explosives with a pretty small number of devices, where most of the others would need something a little heavier or a more sustained effort. I don't think a raider squad could carry enough AT4AST to punch through the Castillo's walls, let alone less effective warheads in the anti-building role. I'm less confident in Frederick's walls.

[Homer]

Yep- I don’t think there’s a question that it’s an easy breach.

I started thinking about the older fortifications as places to hole up, but rapidly realized they were rarely, if ever, fought that way (maybe for Oswego, Carillon, and William Henry) but that most came with outerworks designed to protect the fort itself from direct assault, or at least disrupt the assault. That’s a lot of men then and especially in T2K numbers, so maybe there’s room for the actual “fortresses” (an example being McHenry or Pulaski with infantry ditches and supporting gun positions) and forts (where people seek protection-real or illusory- from the structure itself that you might see in places like Frederick or Sumter).

That said, some of the sea forts would be interesting locations for pirate bases, etc. Imagine trying to get close to Fort Jefferson surreptitiously!

Kind of makes me wonder if some of the sea and island forts may not have given a new lease on life as inspection and harbor defense stations during the first phases of the war. Pea patch island/Fort Delaware for example, is set to cover the close approaches to the Port of Wilmington and Port of Philadelphia. Probably would have been done for by the blast from the Delaware city strike, though.