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Naval War Starting Questions
(resurrected from the archive - kato13)
************ graebardeII Naval War Starting Questions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last evening I started listing all USN vessels. Criteria was any vessel still in service 1989-1990, and any vessel built before 1998. This got me to thinking, which can be dangerous, because then I don't sleep well with the brain in gear. Reagan's goal was a 600-ship navy, and the US was pretty close to that when the wall came down. With the wall never coming down, there would (IMO) not be a rush to decommission many of the vessels. Therefore I propose those vessels decommissioned on/after 1989 would remain in service at least another 6 years. Most of these vessels were only 25-30 years old when they went to mothballs, were sold off, scraped, or what-ever in the 89-90 timeframe. At the very least they would be reserve fleet minimal manned IMO. If I recall, the Navy was not suffering too badly for manning in the Cold War era. graebardeII ************ Grimace Jack of all trades & sometime babbler of nonsense Hey, since you're making that list, would you mind sharing it? Pretty please! __________________ "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam; Mythbusters Grimace ************ DeaconR I'd like to see more on joint task forces and the like. I'd like to get some idea of what the present order of battle of the fleets would be. DeaconR ************ graebardeII US Naval Vessels pt1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Port code: PEN Pensacola FL YOK Yokosuka Japan NOR Norfolk VA MAY Mayport FL SDG San Diego CA BRM Bremerton WA EVT Everett WA LBE Long Beach CA PHB Pearl Harbor HI PAS Pascagoula MS GAE Gaeta Italy CHA Charleston SC SUB Subic Bay Philippine Islands ALM Alameda CA NPT Newport RI PHL Philadelphia PA SNF San Francisco CA BOS Boston MA SEA Seattle WA HON Honolulu HI PSM Portsmouth VA NBF New Bedford MA KEY Key West FL PNH Portsmouth NH WIL Wilmington NC PAT Patrick AFB FL PAW Port Angeles WA SPB St Petersburg FL MIA Miami Beach FL PCF Panama City FL GAL Galveston TX CMY Cape May NJ KOD Kodiak AK KET Kechikan AK LCR Little Creek VA SAS Sasebo Japan ING Ingleside TX Class/Hull NAME Svc Home Carriers CVT16 LEXINGTON 43 91 PEN CV 41 MIDWAY 45 92 YOK CV 43 CORAL SEA 47 90 NOR CV 59 FORRESTAL 55 93 PEN CV 60 SARATOGA 56 94 MAY CV 61 RANGER 57 93 SDG CV 62 INDEPENDENCE 59 00 YOK CV 63 KITTY HAWK 61 00 YOK CV 64 CONSTELLATION 61 00 SDG CVN65 ENTERPRISE 61 00 NOR CV 66 AMERICA 69 00 NOR CV 67 JOHN F. KENNEDY 68 00 MAY CVN68 NIMITZ 75 00 SDG CVN69 DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER 77 00 NOR CVN70 CARL VINSON 82 00 BRM CVN71 THEODORE ROOSEVELT 86 00 NOR CVN72 ABRAHAM LINCOLN 89 00 EVT CVN73 GEORGE WASHINGTON 90 00 NOR CVN74 JOHN C. STENNIS 95 00 SDG CVN75 HARRY S. TRUMAN 98 00 NOR Battleships BB61 IOWA 43 90 NOR BB62 NEW JERSEY 43 91 LBE BB63 MISSOURI 43 92 LBE BB64 WISCONSIN 44 91 NOR Cruisers CGN9 LONG BEACH 61 95 SDG CG 16 LEAHY 62 93 SDG CG 17 HARRY E. YARNELL 63 93 NOR CG 18 WORDEN 63 93 PHB CG 19 DALE 63 94 MAY CG 20 RICHMOND K. TURNER 64 95 PAS CG 21 GRIDLEY 63 94 SDG CG 22 ENGLAND 63 94 SDG CG 23 HALSEY 63 94 SDG CG 24 REEVES 64 93 YOK CGN25 BAINBRIDGE 62 96 NOR CG 26 BELKNAP 64 95 GAE CG 27 JOSEPHUS DANIELS 65 94 NOR CG 28 WAINWRIGHT 66 93 CHA CG 29 JOUETT 66 94 SDG CG 30 HOME 67 94 LBE CG 31 STERETT 67 94 SUB CG 32 WILLIAM H. STANDLEY 66 94 SDG CG 33 FOX 66 94 SDG CG 34 BIDDLE 67 93 NOR CGN35 TRUXTUN 67 95 SDG CGN36 CALIFORNIA 74 98 BRM CGN37 SOUTH CAROLINA 75 98 NOR CGN38 VIRGINIA 76 94 NOR CGN39 TEXAS 77 93 ALM CGN40 MISSISSIPPI 78 97 NOR CGN41 ARKANSAS 80 97 BRM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 01:45 PM. graebardeII ************ chico20854 This is an extract of my Escort Orbat, stripping out foreign and fantasy shipbuilding program ships, which includes all US Navy and Coast Guard major surface combatants in the fleet in the late 1980s, scheduled to be built in the 1990s according to 1987 plans, or still in Navy custody in 1992. I've set up a work group at: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/t2knavalwar/ I've made posting members only to keep spammers at bay... -Chico Attached Files USN & USCG 1990s ColdWar.doc (81.5 KB, 33 views) chico20854 ************ graebardeII US Navy pt2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Class/Hull NAME Svc Home Cruisers CG 47 TICONDEROGA 83 00 PAS CG 48 YORKTOWN 84 00 PAS CG 49 VINCENNES 85 00 YOK CG 50 VALLEY FORGE 86 00 SDG CG 51 THOMAS S. GATES 87 00 PAS CG 52 BUNKER HILL 86 00 SDG CG 53 MOBILE BAY 87 00 SDG CG 54 ANTIETAM 87 00 SDG CG 55 LEYETE GULF 87 00 NOR CG 56 SAN JACINTO 88 00 NOR CG 57 LAKE CHAMPLAIN 88 00 SDG CG 58 PHILIPPINE SEA 89 00 MAY CG 59 PRINCETON 89 00 SDG CG 60 NORMANDY 89 00 NOR CG 61 MONTEREY 90 00 NOR CG 62 CHANCELLORSVILLE 89 00 YOK CG 63 COWPENS 91 00 YOK CG 64 GETTYSBURG 91 00 MAY CG 65 CHOSIN 91 00 PHB CG 66 HUE CITY 91 00 MAY CG 67 SHILO 92 00 SDG CG 68 ANZIO 92 00 NOR CG 69 VICKSBURG 92 00 MAY CG 70 LAKE ERIE 93 00 PHB CG 71 CAPE ST. GEORGE 93 00 NOR CG 72 VELLA GULF 93 00 NOR CG 73 PORT ROYAL 94 00 PHB Destroyer DDG37 FARRAGUT 60 89 NOR DDG38 LUCE 61 91 MAY DDG39 MACDONOUGH 61 92 CHA DDG40 COONTZ 60 89 NOR DDG41 KING 60 91 NOR DDG42 MAHAN 60 93 CHA DDG43 DAHLGREN 60 92 NOR DDG44 WILLIAM B. PRATT 61 91 CHA DDG45 DEWEY 59 90 CHA DDG46 PREBLE 60 91 NOR DDG51 ARLEIGH BURKE 91 00 NOR DDG52 BARRY 92 00 NOR DDG53 JOHN PAUL JONES 93 00 SDG DDG54 CURTIS WILBUR 94 00 YOK DDG55 STOUT 94 00 NOR DDG56 JOHN S. MCCAIN 94 00 YOK DDG57 MITSCHER 94 00 NOR DDG58 LABOON 95 00 NOR DDG59 RUSSELL 95 00 PHB DDG60 PAUL HAMILTON 95 00 PHB DDG61 RAMAGE 95 00 NOR DDG62 FITZGERALD 95 00 YOK DDG63 STETHEM 95 00 SDG DDG64 CARNEY 96 00 MAY DDG65 BENFOLD 96 00 SDG DDG66 GONZALEZ 96 00 NOR DDG67 COLE 96 00 NOR DDG68 THE SULLIVANS 97 00 MAY DDG69 MILIUS 96 00 SDG DDG70 HOOPER 97 00 PHB DDG71 ROSS 97 00 NOR DDG72 MAHAN 98 00 NOR DDG73 DECATUR 98 00 SDG DDG74 MCFAUL 98 00 NOR DDG75 DONALD COOK 98 00 NOR DD963 SPRUNCE 75 00 MAY DD964 Paul F. Foster 76 00 EVT DD965 KINKAID 76 00 SDG DD966 HEWETT 76 00 YOK DD967 ELLIOT 77 00 SDG DD968 ARTHUR W. RADFORD 77 00 NOR DD969 PETERSON 77 00 NOR DD970 CARON 77 00 NOR DD971 DAVID R. RAY 77 00 EVT DD972 OLDENDORF 78 00 SDG DD973 JOHN YOUNG 78 00 SDG DD974 COMTE DE GRASSE 78 00 NOR DD975 O’BRIEN 77 00 YOK DD976 MERRILL 78 00 SDG DD977 BRISCOE 78 00 NOR DD978 STUMP 78 00 NOR DD979 CONOLLY 78 00 MAY DD980 MOOSBRUGGER 78 00 MAY DD981 JOHN HANCOCK 79 00 MAY DD982 NICHOLSON 79 00 MAY DD983 JOHN RODGERS 79 00 MAY DD984 LEFTWICH 79 00 PHB DD985 CUSHING 79 00 YOK DD986 HARRY W. HILL 79 00 SDG DD987 O’BANNON 79 00 MAY DD988 THORN 80 00 NOR DD989 DEYO 80 00 NOR DD990 INGERSOLL 80 00 PHB DD991 FIFE 80 00 EVT DD992 FLETCHER 80 00 PHB DDG993 KIDD 81 98 XXX DDG994 CALLAGHAN 81 98 EVT DDG995 SCOTT 81 98 MAY DDG996 CHANDLER 81 98 EVT DD997 HAYLER 83 00 NOR -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 09:34 AM. graebardeII ************ chico20854 Updated to break them into fleets... Now I'll have to combine/compare to Grae's... Attached Files USN & USCG 1990s ColdWar rev1.doc (47.0 KB, 27 views) chico20854 ************ graebardeII When I get home from work, I'll join the yayhooz group, and place the list to the files section there. Unfortunately we're not able to work in the groups while at work. However I do have time to get other factors done. I'll continue the lists with the frigates, then move into the other vessels as I find the information I'm seeking. The archaic 'puter at work does not cooperate on all aspects of my searching unfortunately. My source btw, to give credit where credit is due to a fine site IMO, is: http://www.globalsecurity.org/ grae graebardeII ************ graebardeII Early Commissioning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Point of clarification on the lists I'm posting. The vessels in itallics are on the way when the war begins. I'm wondering if they couldn't have been commissioned early. War has a way of speeding up production. Most are with in less than 18 months of commissioning. grae graebardeII ************ graebardeII US Navy pt3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Class/HULL NAME Svc Home Frigate FF1037 BRONSTEIN 63 90 SDG FF1038 MCCLOY 63 90 NOR FF1040 GARCIA 64 89 XX FF1041 BRADLEY 65 88 XX FF1043 EDWARD MCDONNELL 65 88 XX FF1044 BRUMBY 65 89 XX FF1045 DAVIDSON 65 88 XX FF1047 VOGUE 66 89 XX FF1048 SAMPLE 68 88 XX FF1049 KOELSCH 67 89 XX FF1050 ALBERT DAVID 68 89 XX FF1051 O’CALLAHAN 68 88 XX FF1052 KNOX 69 92 LBE FF1053 ROARK 69 91 SNF FF1054 GRAY 70 91 SNF FF1055 HEPBURN 69 91 SDG FF1056 CONNOLE 69 92 NPT FF1057 RATHBURN 70 92 PHB FF1058 MEYERKORD 69 91 SDG FF1059 W. S. SIMS 70 91 MAY FF1060 LANG 70 91 SFN FF1061 PATTERSON 70 91 PHL FF1062 WHIPPLE 70 92 PHB FF1063 REASONER 71 93 SDG FF1064 LOCKWOOD 70 93 LBE FF1065 STEIN 72 92 SDG FF1066 MARVIN SHIELDS 71 92 SDG FF1067 FRANCIS HAMMOND 70 92 LBE FF1068 VREELAND 70 92 NOR FF1069 BAGLEY 72 91 SDG FF1070 DOWNES 71 92 SDG FF1071 BADGER 70 91 PHB FF1072 BLAKELY 70 91 CHA FF1073 ROBERT E. PERRY 72 92 PHB FF1074 HAROLD E. HOLT 71 92 PHB FF1075 TRIPPE 70 92 NPT FF1076 FANNING 71 93 SDG FF1077 OUELLET 70 93 PHB FF1078 JOSEPH HEWES 71 94 CHA FF1079 BOWEN 71 94 NOR FF1080 PAUL 71 92 MAY FF1081 AYLWIN 71 92 NPT FF1082 ELMER MONTGOMERY 71 93 MAY FF1083 COOK 71 92 SDG FF1084 MCCANDLESS 72 94 NOR FF1085 DONALD B. BEARY 72 94 NOR FF1086 BREWTON 72 92 PHB FF1087 KIRK 72 93 LBE FF1088 BAREY 72 92 SDG FF1089 JESSE L. BROWN 73 94 CHA FF1090 AINSWORTH 73 94 NOR FF1091 MILLER 73 91 NPT FF1092 THOMAS C. HART 73 93 NOR FF1093 CAPODANNO 73 93 NPT FF1094 PHARRIS 74 92 NOR FF1095 TRUETT 74 94 NOR FF1096 VALDEZ 74 91 NPT FF1097 MOINESTER 74 94 NOR FF1098 GLOVER 65 90 BOS graebardeII ************ shrike6 Grae, Any reason you omitted the Ayatollah-class DDGs? DDG993 Kidd 81 98 XXX DDG994 Callaghan 81 98 EVT DDG995 Scott 81 98 MAY DDG996 Chandler 81 98 EVT Also have you cross checked your list with other sources alot of those Frigates you list were sold or leased to other countries in the mid 90s before the war? __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by shrike6 : 01-21-2006 at 08:14 PM. shrike6 ************ graebardeII Quote:
I'm still working on the list. I think these DDG's however were over-looked, as I'm working the frigates now, but I will double check the list. Thanks for the heads up. No, I have NOT cross checked the list as yet. As for sold-leased in the mid-90s, that is the what were working at. Your info is RL based on with the wall coming down in 89-90. In the scenario we're working on (at lease what I THINK we are) is v1, where the wall stayed up. As I asked in the first post of this thread, would the US dispose of these vessels had the wall not come down, and Cold War continued? The reason they were sold-leased was the great beating of 'swords into plowshares' when 'peace broke out' and the 'walls came tumbling down'. Personally I do not think they would have if the US was to maintain their 600 ship fleet. As I said, these vessels were mostly under 30 years old and still serviceable. Granted SOME of the oldest may have been sold-leased, but that is a question we have to discuss. Grae. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by graebardeII : 01-21-2006 at 10:32 PM. graebardeII ************ shrike6 I'll refrain from asking anymore questions then until you guys have completed your work then. __________________ shrike6 ************ graebardeII Questions are always welcome, but as I said the list is still being compiled. By tomorrow eve, with luck, I shall have completed the frigates list, which comprises the single largest group of vessels. I'm sure you'd be welcome at the projects work site. Sorry if I seemed short. Looking at what I wrote it seemed that way, but that is not the way I intended. It's a work in progress, and without proof readers, omissions, as already pointed out, will undoubtedly be made. As there are numerous navies in this project, persons with knowledge of any navies, and their operational doctrine, will greatly help the project. I can count beans, but doctrine is vague not being a blue-water sailor. I was Army. Grae graebardeII ************ boogiedowndonovan Hey Grae, good stuff, I know you're still working on the list, but I think I found an error. Shouldn't CVN70 CARL VINSON should be homeported at Alameda, CA, not Bremerton, WA. IRL, ALM closed because of the post-cold war draw down, and closed in 1997. In T2K, ALM would still be open. (Matt Wiser, check me on this) By the way, are you concentrating on combat ships only? Or will you list amphibs, fleet support ships, etc? globalsecurity.org is a good site, have you seen this one? http://www.hazegray.org/ boogiedowndonovan ************ Matt Wiser If there had been no BRAC process (if the Wall hadn't come down), Alameda would certainly be still open. VA-304 (USN reserve with A-6Es and KA-6Ds) was the only squadron based there, but it was a carrier home port. One can see a continuance of the Reagan-era buildup into the 1990s up until the Sino-Soviet War begins. Then one would expect SECDEF and JCS starting to dust off contingency plans to get ships out of mothballs, ID'ing reservists who would be called up first, etc. In my T2K timeline, I have the A-6F and F-14D programs still going (axed in 1988 and 1992, respectively), and speed-up of building Burke-class DDGs and Seawolf-class SSNs, along with the six unbuilt Ohio-class SSBNs. Matt Wiser ************ graebardeII 1. Yes I intend to post the rest of the fleet as I get them keyed. 2. Yep, familiar with hazegray. 3. The first assumption we're making is the Cold War continues, there was not a reduction in the fleet, and very few installations were shutdown from 1989 onward. It's as Matt suggests. Only those vessels too old to function well are sold-scrappped. 4. I'm using the homeports shown in globalsecurity, however I know they will be adjusted some, such as you mention with Vinson. Thanks for the inputs. Grae graebardeII ************ graebardeII US Navy pt4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Class/HULL NAME Svc Home FFG 1 BROOKE 67 89 XX FFG 2 RAMSEY 67 89 XX FFG 3 SCHOFIELD 68 89 XX FFG 4 TALBOT 67 89 XX FFG 5 RICHARD L. PAGE 67 89 XX FFG 6 JULIUS A. FURER 67 89 XX short Perry FFG 7 OLIVER HAZARD PERRY 77 97 MAY FFG 9 WADSWORTH 80 00 SDG FFG10 DUNCAN 80 94 LBE FFG11 CLARK 80 00 NOR FFG12 GEORGE PHILIP 80 00 SDG FFG13 SAMUEL ELIOT MORISON 80 00 MAY FFG14 SIDES 81 00 SDG FFG15 ESTOCIN 81 00 NOR FFG16 CLIFTON SPRAGUE 81 95 PHL FFG19 JOHN A. MOORE 81 00 SDG FFG20 ANTRIM 81 96 MAY FFG21 FLATLEY 81 96 MAY FFG22 FAHRION 82 98 MAY FFG23 LEWIS B. PULLER 82 98 SDG FFG24 JACK WILLIAMS 81 96 MAY FFG25 COPELAND 82 96 SDG FFG26 GALLERY 81 96 MAY FFG27 MAHLON S. TISDALE 82 96 SDG FFG30 REID 83 98 SDG FFG31 STARK 82 99 MAY FFG34 AUBREY 82 99 MAY long Perry FFG 8 MCINERNEY 79 00 MAY FFG28 BOONE 82 00 MAY FFG29 STEPHEN W. GROVES 82 00 PAS FFG32 JOHN L. HALL 82 00 PAS FFG33 JARRETT 83 00 SDG FFG36 UNDERWOOD 83 00 MAY FFG37 CROMMELIN 83 00 PHB FFG38 CURTS 83 00 SDG FFG39 DOYLE 83 00 MAY FFG40 HALYBIRTON 84 00 MAY FFG41 MCCLUSKY 83 00 SDG FFG42 KLAKRING 83 00 MAY FFG43 THACH 84 00 SDG FFG45 DEWERT 83 00 MAY FFG46 RENTZ 84 00 SDG FFG47 NICHOLAS 84 00 NOR FFG48 VANDEGRIFT 84 00 YOK FFG49 ROBERT G. BRADLEY 84 00 MAY FFG50 TAYLOR 84 00 MAY FFG51 GARY 84 00 YOK FFG52 CARR 85 00 NOR FFG53 HAWES 85 00 NOR FFG54 FORD 85 00 EVT FFG55 ELROD 85 00 NOR FFG56 SIMPSON 85 00 MAY FFG57 REUBEN JAMES 86 00 PHB FFG58 SAMUEL B. ROBERTS 86 00 NOR FFG59 KAUFFMAN 87 00 NOR FFG60 RODNEY M. DAVIS 87 00 EVT FFG61 INGRAHAM 89 00 EVT graebardeII ************ graebardeII Uscg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 378ft BUILT: 67-72 WHEC 715 HAMILTON SDG WHEC 716 DALLAS CHA WHEC 717 MELLON SEA WHEC 718 CHASE SDG WHEC 719 BOUTWELL ALA WHEC 720 SHERMAN ALA WHEC 721 GALLATIN CHA WHEC 722 MORGENTHAU ALA WHEC 723 RUSH HON WHEC 724 MUNRO ALA WHEC 725 JARVIS HON WHEC 726 MIDGETT SEA 270ft BUILT: 83-88 WMEC 901 BEAR PSM WMEC 902 TAMPA PSM WMEC 903 HARRIET LANE PSM WMEC 904 NORTHLAND PSM WMEC 905 SPENCER BOS WMEC 906 SENECA BOS WMEC 907 ESCANABA BOS WMEC 908 TAHOMA NBF WMEC 909 CAMPBELL NBF WMEC 910 THETIS KEY WMEC 911 FORWARD PSM WMEC 912 LEGARE PSM WMEC 913 MOHAWK KEY WMEC 615 RELIANCE PNH 210ft 66-69 WMEC 616 DILIGENCE WIL WMEC 617 VIGILANT PAT WMEC 618 ACTIVE PAW WMEC 619 CONFIDENCE PAT WMEC 620 RESOLUTE SPB WMEC 621 VALIANT MIA WMEC 622 COURAGEOUS PCF WMEC 623 STEADFAST WAR WMEC 624 DAUNTLESS GAL WMEC 625 VENTUROUS SPB WMEC 626 DEPENDABLE PSM WMEC 627 VIGOROUS CMY WMEC 628 DURABLE SPB WMEC 629 DECISIVE PAS WMEC 630 ALERT WAR 230ft BUILT: 42 WMEC 38 STORIS KOD 213ft BUILT: 44 WMEC 167 ACUSHNET KET BUILT: 71-96 ATS 1 EDENTON XX ATS 2 BEAUFORT XX ATS 3 BRUNSWICK XX graebardeII ************ graebardeII Amphibs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LHA 1 TARAWA 76 SDG LHA 2 SAIPAN 77 NOR LHA 3 BELLEAU WOOD 78 SDG LHA 4 NASSAU 79 NOR LHA 5 PELELIU 80 SDG LHD 1 WASP 89 NOR LHD 2 ESSEX 92 SAS LHD 3 KEARSARGE 93 NOR LHD 4 BOXER 95 SDG LHD 5 BATAN 97 NOR LHD 6 BONHOMME RICHARD 98 SDG LPH 2 IWO JIMA 61 93 NOR LPH 3 OKINAWA 62 92 SDG LPH 7 GUADALCANAL 63 94 NOR LPH 9 GUAM 65 98 NOR LPH 10 TRIPOLI 66 95 SDG LPH 11 NEW ORLEANS 68 97 SDG LPD 4 AUSTIN 65 NOR LPD 5 OGDEN 65 SDG LPD 6 DULUTH 66 SDG LPD 7 CLEVELAND 67 SDG LPD 8 DUBUQUE 67 SDG LPD 9 DENVER 68 SDG LPD 10 JUNEAU 69 SAS LPD 12 SHREVEPORT 70 NOR LPD 13 NASHVILLE 69 NOR LPD 14 TRENTON 71 NOR LPD 15 PONCE 71 NOR LSD 41 WHIDBEY ISLAND 85 LCR LSD 42 GERMANTOWN 86 SDG LSD 43 FORT MCHENRY 87 SAS LSD 44 GUNSTON HALL 89 LCR LSD 45 COMSTOCK 90 SDG LSD 46 TORTUGA 90 LCR LSD 47 RUSHMORE 91 SDG LSD 48 ASHLAND 92 LCR LSD 49 HARPERS FERRY 94 SAS LSD 50 CARTER HALL 95 LCR LSD 51 OAK HILL 96 LCR LSD 52 PEARL HARBOR 98 SDG LCC 19 BLUE RIDGE 70 YOK LCC 20 MOUNT WHITNEY 71 NOR AGF 3 LA SALLE 64 GAE AGF 11 CORONADO 70 SDG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 01:15 PM. graebardeII ************ graebardeII Minewarfare -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All USN Minewarfare are home ported at NS Ingleside TX, with rotations overseas as directed. MCS 12 INCHON 70 ING MCM 1 AVENGER 87 ING MCM 2 DEFENDER 89 ING MCM 3 SENTRY 89 ING MCM 4 CHAMPION 91 ING MCM 5 GUARDIAN 89 ING MCM 6 DEVASTATOR 90 ING MCM 7 PATRIOT 91 SAS* MCM 8 SCOUT 90 ING MCM 9 PIONEER 92 ING MCM 10 WARRIOR 93 ING MCM 11 GLADIATOR 93 ING MCM 12 ARDENT 94 ING* MCM 13 DEXTROUS 94 ING* MCM 14 CHIEF 94 ING MHC 51 OPSPREY 93 ING MHC 52 HERON 94 ING MHC 53 PELICAN 95 ING MHC 54 ROBIN 96 ING MHC 55 ORIOLE 95 ING MHC 56 KINGFISHER 96 ING MHC 57 CORMORANT 97 ING MHC 58 BLACKHAWK 96 ING MHC 59 FALCON 97 ING MHC 60 CARDINAL 97 ING* MHC 61 RAVEN 98 ING* MHC 62 SHRIKE 99 ING graebardeII ************ shrike6 Quote:
I pretty much agree with your assessment Matt except there still would have been a BRAC process it had started 1988. The army had drawn down two brigades before 1990 had started (2nd Brigade, 9th ID [1988] and 2nd Brigade, 4th ID [1989]). Maybe it wouldn't have been as deep as the one we know but there still would have been some sort of a drawdown. Although I do agree that Alameda probably still would have been there. Quote:
Last edited by shrike6 : 01-22-2006 at 06:34 PM. shrike6 ************ FightingFlamingo I think that in regards to the BRAC. If we are using a variant of the V1 chronology something has to address 1989. If it didn't happen and there was a heat up in the Cold War... those decisions could have been reversed. a Generalised timeline of events from 1988 through 1995 should be agreed on to justify a naval construction plan. After the Sino-Soviet War starts in 1995, there is potential for an acceleration of the the shipbuilding program. __________________ Cold Blue Steel - the spirit of the bayonet FightingFlamingo ************ chico20854 I can pull out the Naval shipbuilding plan from 1987 that lists what ships were to be built when. I think that will isolate 1989 and get us what a continuation of the Cold War would have looked like. I'll try to get to it today... chico20854 ************ chico20854 US Navy Shipbuilding Plan as of 1988: 1 SSBN a year until 20 in the fleet 1 LA-class sub a year until 66 in the fleet 1 Seawolf class sub in 1989, 2 in 1991 and each year after. 1 carrier in 1990, 1 in 1993 3 Burke-class destroyers in 1989 and 1990, 5 in 1991 and 6 a year until 29 in the fleet 1 Wasp-class LHD in 1988, 1989 and 1991, 1 every other year until 12 in the fleet 1 LSD-CV in 1988, 1990, 1991 and 2 a year until 10 in the fleet 2 MHC (Italian Lerici-class minehunter) in 1989, 3 in 1990 and 1991, 4 a year after until 17 in the fleet 1 AOE in 1989 and 2 in 1991 1 AE-36 in 1991 and 1992, 2 in 1993, 1 in 1994. 1 ARS in 1990 2 T-AOE in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 1 in 1991. 2 T-AGOS in 1988, 1 in 1989, 3 in 1990, 2 in 1991. 12 LCAC a year. The dates are order date. Commissioning dates are, on average, about 5 years after the order date, although that varies by type of ship and specific circumstances (i.e. shipyard bankruptcy, multiple vessels ordered on same date, etc). For aircraft, the procurement plan was: 12 A-6E/F in 1988, 18 in 1989 and 24 a year thereafter 12 EA-6B a year 42 AV-8B a year until 328 in the fleet 132 FA-18 in 1988 and 1989, 163 a year thereafter 12 F-14 in 1988, 18 in 1989, 24 in 1990 and 36 in 1991 to 304 in the fleet 14 CH/MH-53E in 1988 and 1989, 12 in 1990 and the possibility of more thereafter 6 SH-60B in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 12 in 1991 and thereafter until 239 in the fleet 18 SH-60F in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 12 in 1991 and thereafter until 175 in the fleet 9 P-3 Orion/year, with P-6 production starting in 1990 and reaching 25 a year 6 E-2C a year maintain capability to produce at least 6 SH-2G a year 3 E-6A/year 12 T-45 in 1988, 24 in 1989 and 1990, 48 in 1991 and thereafter I haven't been able to locate the comparable Coast Guard plan. chico20854 ************ shrike6 Good stuff Chico. __________________ shrike6 ************ graebardeII Submarines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SSN 585 SKIPJACK 59 90 NOR SSN 588 SCAMP 61 91 SDG SSN 590 SCULPIN 61 90 SDG SSN 591 SHARK 61 90 NOR SSN 592 SNOOK 61 86 NLD SSN 594 PERMIT 62 91 SDG SSN 595 PLUNGER 63 89 XX SSN 596 BARB 63 89 XX SSN 603 POLLOCK 64 89 XX SSN 604 HADDO 64 91 SDG SSN 605 JACK 67 90 NLD SSN 606 TINOSA 64 92 NLD SSN 607 DACE 64 88 XX SSN 612 GUARDFISH 66 92 SDG SSN 613 FLASHER 66 92 SDG SSN 614 GREENLING 67 94 PNH SSN 615 GATO 68 96 NLD SSN 621 HADDOCK 67 93 MIC SSN 597 TULIBEE 60 93 xx SSN 637 STURGEON 67 94 CHA SSN 638 WHALE 68 96 GRO SSN 639 TAUTOG 68 97 PHB SSN 646 GRAYLING 69 97 CHA SSN 647 POGY 71 99 SDG SSN 648 ASPRO 69 95 PHB SSN 649 SUNFISH 69 97 CHA SSN 650 PARGO 68 95 BRM SSN 651 QUEENFISH 66 92 PHB SSN 652 PUFFER 69 96 PHB SSN 653 RAY 67 93 CHA SSN 660 SANDLANCE 71 98 GRO SSN 661 LAPON 67 92 NOR SSN 662 GUMARD 68 95 SDG SSN 663 HAMMERHEAD 68 95 MIC SSN 664 SEA DEVIL 69 91 CHA SSN 665 GUITARRO 72 92 SDG SSN 666 HAWKBILL 71 99 PHB SSN 667 BERGALL 69 96 MIC SSN 668 SPADEFISH 69 97 NOR SSN 669 SEAHORSE 69 95 CHA SSN 670 FINBACK 70 97 NOR SSN 672 PINADU 71 98 SDG SSN 673 FLYINGFISH 70 96 BRM SSN 674 TREPANG 70 99 GRO SSN 675 BLUEFISH 71 96 NOR SSN 676 BILLFISH 71 99 GRO SSN 677 DRUM 72 95 SDG SSN 678 ARCHERFISH 71 98 GRO SSN 679 SILVERSIDES 72 94 BRM SSN 680 WILLIAM H. BATES 73 00 PHB SSN 681 BATFISH 72 98 GRO SSN 682 TUNNY 74 98 PHB SSN 683 PARCHE 74 00 SDG SSN 684 CAVALLO 73 98 PHB SSN 686 L. MENDEL RIVERS 75 00 NOR SSN 687 RICHARD B. RUSSELL 75 94 MIC SSN 645 JAMES K. POLK 66 99 NOR SSN 671 NARWALL 69 99 NOR SSN 685 GLENARD P. LIPSCOMB 74 89 XX SSN 688 LOS ANGELES 76 00 PHB SSN 689 BATON ROUGE 77 95 NOR SSN 690 PHILADELPHIA 77 00 GRO SSN 691 MEMPHIS 77 00 GRO SSN 692 OMAHA 78 95 PHB SSN 693 CINCINNATI 78 96 NOR SSN 694 GROTON 78 97 GRO SSN 695 BIRMINGHAM 78 97 PHB SSN 696 NEW YORK CITY 79 97 PHB SSN 697 INDIANAPOLIS 80 98 PHB SSN 698 BREMERTON 81 00 PHB SSN 699 JACKSONVILLE 81 00 NOR SSN 700 DALLAS 81 00 GRO SSN 701 LA JOLLA 81 00 PHB SSN 702 PHOENIX 81 98 NOR SSN 703 BOSTON 82 99 GRO SSN 704 BALTIMORE 82 98 XX SSN 705 CITY OF CORPUS CHRISTI 83 00 GUA SSN 706 ALBUQUERQUE 83 00 GRO SSN 707 PORTSMOUTH 83 00 SDG SSN 708 MINNEAPOLIS-ST PAUL 84 00 NOR SSN 709 HYMAN G. RICKOVER 84 00 NOR SSN 710 AUGUSTA 85 00 GRO SSN 711 SAN FRANCISCO 84 00 GUA SSN 712 ATLANTA 82 00 NOR SSN 713 HOUSTON 82 00 SDG SSN 714 NORFOLK 83 00 NOR SSN 715 BUFFALO 83 00 PHB SSN 716 SALT LAKE CITY 84 00 SDG SSN 717 OLYMPIA 84 00 PHB SSN 718 HONOLULU 85 00 PHB SSN 719 PROVIDENCE 85 00 GRO SSN 720 PITTSBURG 85 00 GRO SSN 721 CHICAGO 86 00 PHB SSN 722 KEY WEST 87 00 PHB SSN 723 OKLAHOMA CITY 88 00 NOR SSN 724 LOUISVILLE 88 00 PHB SSN 725 HELENA 87 00 SDG SSN 750 NEWPORT NEWS 89 00 NOR SSN 751 SAN JUAN 88 00 GUA SSN 752 PASADENA 89 00 PHB SSN 753 ALBANY 90 00 NOR SSN 754 TOPEKA 89 00 PHB SSN 755 MIAMI 90 00 GRO SSN 756 SCRANTON 91 00 NOR SSN 757 ALEXANDRIA 91 00 GRO SSN 758 ASHEVILLE 91 00 PHB SSN 759 JEFFERSON CITY 92 00 SDG SSN 760 ANNAPOLIS 92 00 GRO SSN 761 SPRINGFIELD 93 00 GRO SSN 762 COLUMBUS 93 00 PHB SSN 763 SANTA FE 93 00 PHB SSN 764 BOISE 92 00 NOR SSN 765 MONTPELIER 93 00 NOR SSN 766 CHAROLETTE 94 00 PHB SSN 767 HAMPTON 93 00 NOR SSN 768 HARTFORD 94 00 GRO SSN 769 TOLEDO 95 00 GRO SSN 770 TUCSON 95 00 PHB SSN 771 COLUMBIA 95 00 PHB SSN 772 GREENVILLE 96 00 PHB SSN 773 CHEYENNE 96 00 PHB SS 572 SAILFISH 56 ?? BRM AGSS 555 DOLPHIN 68 ?? SDG SS 580 BARBEL 59 ?? XX SS 581 BLUEBACK 59 ?? XX SSN 21 SEAWOLF 97 00 GRO SSN 22 CONNECTICUT 97 00 GRO SSBN 609 SAM HOUSTON 62 91 XX SSBN 611 JOHN MARSHALL 62 92 XX SSBN 616 LAFAYETTE 63 91 GRO SSBN 617 ALEXANDER HAMILTON 63 93 GRO SSBN 619 ANDREW JACKSON 63 89 XX SSBN 620 JOHN ADAMS 64 89 XX SSBN 622 JAMES MONROE 63 90 CHA SSBN 623 NATHAN HALE 63 86 XX SSBN 624 WOODROW WILSON 63 94 CHA SSBN 625 HENRY CLAY 64 90 CHA SSBN 626 DANIEL WEBSTER 64 90 GRO SSBN 627 JAMES MADISON 64 92 CHA SSBN 628 TECUMSEH 64 93 NOR SSBN 629 DANIEL BOONE 64 94 NOR SSBN 630 JOHN C. CALHOUN 64 94 CHA SSBN 631 ULYSSES S. GRANT 64 92 PNH SSBN 632 VON STUBEN 64 94 CHA SSBN 633 CASIMIR PULASKI 64 94 CHA SSBN 634 STONEWALL JACKSON 64 95 CHA SSBN 635 SAM RAYBURN 64 89 XX SSBN 636 NATHANIAL GREEN 64 87 XX SSBN 640 BENJAMIN FRANKLIN 65 93 NOR SSBN 641 SIMON BOLIVAR 65 95 PSM SSBN 642 KAMEHAMEHA 65 92 PHB SSBN 643 GEORGE BANCROFT 66 93 CHA SSBN 644 LEWIS AND CLARK 65 92 CHA SSBN 645 JAMES K. POLK 66 99 NOR SSBN 654 GEORGE C. MARSHALL 66 92 GRO SSBN 655 HENRY L. STIMSON 66 93 CHA SSBN 656 GEO. WASHINGTON CARVER 66 93 GRO SSBN 657 FRANCIS SCOTT KEY 66 93 CHA SSBN 658 MARIANO G. VALLEJO 65 95 CHA SSBN 659 WILL ROGERS 67 93 GRO SSBN 726 OHIO 81 00 BAN SSBN 727 MICHIGAN 82 00 BAN SSBN 728 FLORIDA 83 00 BAN SSBN 729 GEORGIA 84 00 BAN SSBN 730 HENRY M. JACKSON 84 00 BAN SSBN 731 ALABAMA 85 00 BAN SSBN 732 ALASKA 86 00 BAN SSBN 733 NEVADA 86 00 BAN SSBN 734 TENNESSEE 88 00 KBG SSBN 735 PENNSYLVANIA 89 00 BAN SSBN 736 WEST VIRGINIA 90 00 KBG SSBN 737 KENTUCKY 91 00 KBG SSBN 738 MARYLAND 92 00 KBG SSBN 739 NEBRASKA 93 00 KBG SSBN 740 RHODE ISLAND 94 00 KBG SSBN 741 MAINE 95 00 KBG SSBN 742 WYOMING 96 00 KBG SSBN 743 LOUISANIA 97 00 KBG graebardeII ************ JimWardrip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice work. I did notice one area that I may be able to offer some insight. The Simpson (FFG56), Roberts (FFG58), and Kauffman (FFG59) were all home-ported in Newport until 94. There were some others there but I can't recall exactly which ones. I know the Simpson moved to Norfolk in 94 after returning from Somalia, then to Mayport 18-24 months later. I'm not sure when the Sammy B. and Kauffman left Newport, but I know they were still there in Dec 93. Approaching this from the perspective that the Cold War did not end, in all likelihood the Navy would have maintained their de-centralized posture and would have maintained ships, more-or-less, at their 1989-90 locations. Regards, Jim Wardrip T2k13 Design Team JimWardrip ************ graebardeII Jim, Thanks for the heads-up. I realize the homeports in 96 are probably different from those given. I appologize to all for that, but right now I'm trying to at least get all the vessels that were, or may have been had 'peace not broken out', in service. I have wound up using TWO sources now to cross check. FAS being the second source. I've discovered several ommissions on my part, which I will correct to the appropriate list today. I 'think' I have the list done for the most part. I have well over 600 ships, not counting USCG vessels, sealift, prepositioned, and reserve fleet. I know some of the vessels on the list may come from RRF, but now my concentration is on logistical vessels. FB graebardeII ************ graebardeII Corrections -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ddg 2 Charles F. Adams 60 90 May Ddg 3 John King 61 90 Nor Ddg 4 Lawrence 62 90 Nor Ddg 5 Claude V. Ricketts 62 89 Nor Ddg 6 Barney 62 90 Nor Ddg 7 Henry B. Wilson 60 89 Nor Ddg 8 Lynde Mccormick 61 91 Sdg Ddg 9 Towers 61 90 Yok Ddg 10 Sampson 61 91 May Ddg 11 Sellers 61 89 Cha Ddg 12 Robinson 61 91 Sdg Ddg 13 Hoel 62 91 Sdg Ddg 14 Buchanan 62 91 Sdg Ddg 15 Berkeley 62 92 Sdg Ddg 16 Joseph Strauss 63 90 Phb Ddg 17 Conyngham 63 90 Nor Ddg 18 Semmes 62 91 Cha Ddg 19 Tattnall 63 91 May Ddg 20 Goldsborough 63 93 Phb Ddg 21 Cochrane 63 90 Yok Ddg 22 Benjamin Stoddert 64 91 Phb Ddg 23 Richard E. Byrd 64 90 Nor Ddg 24 Waddell 64 92 Sdg Lka 113 Charleston 68 92 Lka 114 Durham 69 94 Lka 115 Mobile 69 94 Lka 116 St Louis 69 92 Lka 117 El Paso 70 92 Lpd 1 Raleigh 62 91 Nor Lpd 2 Vancouver 63 92 Sdg Lst 1179 Newport 69 92 Lcr Lst 1180 Manitowac 70 93 Lcr Lst 1181 Sumter 70 93 Lcr Lst 1182 Fresno 69 93 Sdg Lst 1183 Peoria 70 94 Sdg Lst 1184 Frederick 70 0 Phb Lst 1185 Schenectady 70 93 Sdg Lst 1186 Cayuga 70 94 Sdg Lst 1187 Tuscaloosa 70 94 Sdg Lst 1188 Saginaw 71 94 Sdg Lst 1189 San Bernardino 71 95 Sdg Lst 1190 Boulder County 71 94 Lcr Lst 1191 Racine 71 93 Lbe Lst 1192 Spartansburg County 71 94 Lcr Lst 1193 Fairfax County 71 94 Lcr Lst 1194 La Moure County 71 0 Lcr Lst 1195 Barbour County 72 92 Sdg Lst 1196 Harlan County 72 95 Lcr Lst 1197 Barnstable County 72 94 Lcr Lst 1198 Bristol County 72 94 Sdg Mso 427 Constant 54 92 Sdg Mso 433 Engage 54 91 May Mso 437 Enhance 55 91 Tac Mso 438 Esteem 55 91 Sea Mso 439 Excel 55 92 Sfn Mso 440 Exploit 54 93 Npt Mso 441 Exultant 54 93 Cha Mso 442 Fearless 54 90 Cha Mso 446 Fortify 54 92 Lcr Mso 448 Illusive 53 90 May Mso 449 Impervious 54 91 May Mso 455 Implicit 54 94 Tac Mso 456 Inflict 54 90 Lcr Mso 464 Pluck 54 90 Sdg Mso 488 Conquest 55 94 Sea Mso 489 Gallant 55 94 Sfn Mso 490 Leader 55 92 Cha Mso 492 Pledge 56 94 Sea Mso 509 Adroit 57 92 Lcr Mso 511 Affray 58 92 Cha Last edited by kato13; 03-15-2010 at 03:44 PM. 
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