Naval info/Travelling across the Atlantic

[kato13]

bigehauser 08-23-2008, 11:20 AM Anybody know of any sources for naval information, such as any good sources on the web for detailed information on cross ocean vessels, whether large or small? I am not necessarily looking for little sloops, nor am I looking for huge battle cruisers. I would simply like as much info, most importantly size and range with one tank of fuel, as well as all the intricacies of all sorts of vessels. Knots in terms of KnPH is also a must.


I am trying to put this together for a cross-Atlantic voyage, and need all the help I can get.


Other info on this would help too, in terms of weather info, the different places throughout the ocean(Azores, Bermuda, notably), etc.


-Hauser

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Mohoender 08-23-2008, 11:53 AM Go to this site


http://www.aandc.org/links/index.html


I don't really know if they have anything of interest (not really interested in that) but their links seem to be interesting. Else, you can try the following, it's a military web site but they might be a good place to start.


http://www.hazegray.org/

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Hangfire7 08-23-2008, 02:34 PM I think a knott is like 1.44 miles per hour, its been a mile and I have forgotten, plus GPS has spoiled me


As for fuel consumption is all variable depending on the size of the vessel, engines, winds and currents. An example, when fuel was affordable when my dad and I could take ours out, we would cruise at about 22mph per the GPS without the current, we hit a current against us and almost INSTANTLY we dropped to 8 to 12, with the current with us we jumped to well the fastest was the odd burst of 38.


And then you have the subjectiveness of cross ocean. We have folks crossing the Atlantic in rowboats now.


I had the PCs cross the Atlantic in a 20s/30s era steam ship burning coal and wood. However, I would think that windpower would be the primary means of any group or even most nations with few exceptions. Oil would be from someone with access to the middle east or places where they have oil to use on trade ships.


Nuclear power, according to the game these are all gone, but I would think a few would be left but they would be hidden at this point for national defense and restricted to home ports under tight security rather than use abroad to counter threats at home just in case the enemy had one left they wanted to use to invade or do what they will.


I would go with sailing ships, and if thats the case, then it is the ship design, the sail configuration and the latituide and time of year you sailed would all be factors.

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gstitz 08-23-2008, 03:33 PM Anybody know of any sources for naval information, such as any good sources on the web for detailed information on cross ocean vessels, whether large or small? I am not necessarily looking for little sloops, nor am I looking for huge battle cruisers. I would simply like as much info, most importantly size and range with one tank of fuel, as well as all the intricacies of all sorts of vessels. Knots in terms of KnPH is also a must.


I am trying to put this together for a cross-Atlantic voyage, and need all the help I can get.


Other info on this would help too, in terms of weather info, the different places throughout the ocean(Azores, Bermuda, notably), etc.


-Hauser


If you are looking for military vessels, "Combat Fleets of the World" would be your best reference. It lists range and number of days endurance for most of the world's military vessels, large and small.


"Distances Between Ports", PUB 151, is another reference you'll need. As the title implies, it give the distances between various world ports. It available as a free PDF download. I used to keep a copy printed handy, but I don't see it on my shelf, so I must have tossed it to make room for something else.


There is also "Distances between US Ports", also available as a PDF download.


1 nautical mile = 1.15 statue miles = 1.852 Km. Of course speeds for vessels are almost universally given as knots (NM/Hr), not MPH or KPH.


As far as weather goes, I would probably start with a Fodor's travel book, available at most any bookstore. I would check the used book stores first. Ideally, if you live in an area with lots of boating, there are sailing guides available for almost any destination you can think of, if you can afford it.


Part of a used Fodor's might be your PC's reference...

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GOF 08-23-2008, 05:51 PM Hey you fella's are doi9ng Chico a disservice, his site has a good little store of ships with that sortta stuff listed

Anybody got the website? I been there a few times but never bookmarked it just looked it up from here or as CHico's file dump

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Headquarters 08-24-2008, 08:27 AM Anybody know of any sources for naval information, such as any good sources on the web for detailed information on cross ocean vessels, whether large or small? I am not necessarily looking for little sloops, nor am I looking for huge battle cruisers. I would simply like as much info, most importantly size and range with one tank of fuel, as well as all the intricacies of all sorts of vessels. Knots in terms of KnPH is also a must.


I am trying to put this together for a cross-Atlantic voyage, and need all the help I can get.


Other info on this would help too, in terms of weather info, the different places throughout the ocean(Azores, Bermuda, notably), etc.


-Hauser


always promoting - here is the link to our most excellent site


http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/


it has a few twilight related ships and boats etc


please look under "files" and click you way to the preferred category .

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bigehauser 08-26-2008, 04:48 AM Ah!


Just what I was looking for! I shall be using a yacht! Thank you so much, my good man!



always promoting - here is the link to our most excellent site


http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/


it has a few twilight related ships and boats etc


please look under "files" and click you way to the preferred category .

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bigehauser 08-29-2008, 06:25 AM Now with that....


Any ideas as to how the voyage will play out?


I already have some ideas...but anything from the normal, to the completely in freaking sane is welcome(we are going to be moving through the Bermuda Triangle to get to Florida, you know).


-Hauser

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pmulcahy 08-29-2008, 07:53 AM Whipping out my conversion program:


1 Nautical Mile (Knot) = 1.150782 miles


1 Mile = 1.609344 kilometers


1 Nautical Mile = 1.852 kilometers



I love freeware!

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Hangfire7 08-29-2008, 11:35 AM Pirates


Whalers or fishermen who may see the PCs of group as easy prey and attack.


A Rogue whale ala Moby Dick or the 70s movie "Orca"


A shark or pack of sharks following your boat, quite common.


Dolphin encounter, they like to follow boats too


A Giant Squid?


Storms of all manner


Freaky Storms where it is shinny and bright and 10 feet over pouring buckets of rain and wind.


Water Spout



Rogue Wave


Any manner of mechanical failure of your vessel, go with the following:


Modibility failure, engine or mast

Hull leak, or a complete breach

Contaminated water

Contaminated food

RATs <common>

Mutiny

Insanity, group of people, in close quarters under stress for long periods of time, I can see cabin fever setting in, people loosing it, also alot of short fuses and squabled and fights.


Being caught in "The Doldrums" for a sailing vessel. ie NO WIND.

For a powered vessel, "caught in an endless bed of kelp or seaweed that constantly fouls the proppellers, as well as clogging the water intakes that cool the engine." Think of something like the Sargasso Sea


Heat or Cold, and toss a spin making it the oposite of what it should be for that area.


Rocks and shoals, a escarpment that lay just below the surface in the middle of no where that nearly tears the bottom out of the boat.


A derelict vessel floating in the middle of the ocean that the PCs can explore, maybe toss ona community of survivors, who are iradiated or suffer from radiotion, or are a cult or who have gone mental.


those are some ideas.

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Nowhere Man 1966 08-30-2008, 11:41 AM Don't forget to bring along a source of vitamin C as well, scurvy was a problem on long voyages too.


Chuck M.

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Headquarters 09-02-2008, 07:32 AM a lot of these crossing used to and still depart from the canary islands of Africa and arrive at Bermuda or Bahamas or before navigating on to their original destination. Every year a lot of yachts men gather in the Canaries and make the run together as a convoy more or less.( Friend of mine did it once -I think the trip took 19 days-might be totally wrong though).


Certain times of year have favourable winds and weather for the crossing.


As for events-I am thinking a storm that cripples the vessels /contaminates water /food etc and then when desperation is seeping in along with the leaks a sighting of a derelict ship of the massive type that could hold the provisions or tools needed to repair/carry on.


If in the Bermuda triangle a lot of creepy stuff onboard is possible -if not what about a crew of murderous ,cannibalistic savages that after years adrift lure people onboard and then kill and cook em ?


anyhows- best of luck

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Hangfire7 09-02-2008, 11:00 AM Remind me not to do either of two things with HQ.


Crash land in the Andes or be on his lifeboat

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Headquarters 09-03-2008, 05:01 AM If you are scrawny you probably would be alright..I mean fighting ,killing and cooking someone is hard work -and I think someone plump would be higher up on the menu list..


Kidding..


But -yeah- had a lot of cannibalism in my campaign so far .(No PCs eaten ..yet..)

Just finished the Road by Cormac McCarthy. Grim stuff,a beautiful book and a lot of inspiration for post apoc games. ( Cannibalism is detailed in its most gruesome manner in the book ).


It has been practiced on every continent and it never seems to be totally extinct. ( the "Alive" movie etc )


Even in our law studies there was a famous case of shipwrecked crewmen killing and eating a cabin boy -they were convicted to jail -not for eating him but for not drawing lots about who would be the piece the resistance rather then just strangling him etc .)


Also from Australia there are many reports of aboriginies and escaped convicts eating captives or eachother for survival or as rituals.(A group if escaping convicts could take a man with them that believed he was a part of the team -alas he was really just a walking ration pack for later..talk about giving the survivor show new flavour )


Of course the stories from the famine in the USSSR in the 1920/30s and the occasional psycho out there with a fridge full of street people cutlets..


I dont think your PCs will actually have the fear of the GM put into them unless at least one is captured,killed and eaten by savage cannibals.


Our next few FtFs will tell...muahahahaha

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Targan 09-03-2008, 05:42 AM Also from Australia there are many reports of aboriginies and escaped convicts eating captives or eachother for survival or as rituals.(A group if escaping convicts could take a man with them that believed he was a part of the team -alas he was really just a walking ration pack for later..talk about giving the survivor show new flavour )There is an Australian book soon to be made into a film which tells the real life story of a convict held at the Botany Bay Colony who engaged in cannabilism during two separate periods, both after he escaped from the prison colony and he and his comrades were starving in the bush. Of course being a New Zealander I'm well acquainted with cannabilism as a cultural phenomenon - the Maori engaged in ritual cannibalism and their name for white folk is Pakeha (it literally means "Long Pork").

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Hangfire7 09-03-2008, 02:30 PM Yes, cannibalism is quite common. And yes one would be hard pressed to find one culture where it had not had been practiced in history.


Of course there are two, I say three types of cannibalism.


The two are:


Ritual Cannibalism which is the most common and usualy part of a culture or society. Thus it is well ingrained in that group. Such things are the Aztec priests eating the heard of their sacrificial victims, or the Native American custom and the Polynesian custom of eating the heart of living of a strong foe in order to gain their power or strength.


Suvival Cannibalism; that is the lifeboat and Socer Team in the Andes situation. And in my book one to be likely in the Twilight World, this also includes the Anasazi and the human remains found that showed signs of cooking and processing. And of course the imfamous Donners Party and their Winter being snowed in.


My 3rd Theory however is,


Customary Cannibalism or Routine Cannibalism:


This is where a people are cannibals. It is not out of extreme situations. Nor is it out of some ritual rite. But it is where human flesh is a regular and routine part of that peoples diet. These people have been found in Africa, S. America and of course the Islands of the Pacific and the last known group is of course New Guinea.


One last group who don't fit either, those who are the sociatal deviants who are the phsyco killer cannibals one hears about on the news. And again, these are aborations who really do not fit into a group and do not rate a group of their own, but again, every culture or society has their them. However, in the two traditional cannibal groups these would find an outlet for their deviant behaivour or it would go unnoticed.


Now, I can see all of the above forms of cannibalism happening:


A group of people, even the PCs starving to death and they do the survival cannibal thing.


A group of people who hunt one another for food. This is touched on in "City of the Angles." That would be an interesting campaign. A group of people slightly mentaly unbalanced begin hunting the villagers and people of the region.


Ritualistic: Well I am thinking some cult would do this. Or someone in a former doomsday cult, maybe taking the blood and body of Christ a bit to the extreme for their communions.


Phsyco Killers; well how many people would go mad from the horror, shock and even disease?


Oh, we could even have a group or cult who becme vampires. Well in their own warped minds. Roaming the night in black flowing capes searching for victims. And due to their diet, they have better strength, agility and night vision as well as their warped beleif that they are real vampires they excell in acrobatics, they could even have some form of disease that makes them mentaly unballanced, like lead poisoning or rabies or ergot poisoning.


Ah so many placed we as evil GMs can go with this.

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TiggerCCW UK 09-03-2008, 03:12 PM Oh, we could even have a group or cult who becme vampires. Well in their own warped minds. Roaming the night in black flowing capes searching for victims. And due to their diet, they have better strength, agility and night vision as well as their warped beleif that they are real vampires they excell in acrobatics, they could even have some form of disease that makes them mentaly unballanced, like lead poisoning or rabies or ergot poisoning.


Ah so many placed we as evil GMs can go with this.


Wasn't there a scenario in Challenge magazine along those lines? An asylum where they thought there was a werewolf? Turned out to be a loony with rabies IIRC.

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Mohoender 09-03-2008, 03:14 PM Hang


About insanity cannibalism which is not that uncommon. In 1981 Issei Sagawa, a japanese student at the Sorbonne, made a nice meal out of his dutch pseudo-girlfriend in Paris.


He was sent back to japan (1983) where psychiatrist let him out stating he wasn't insane. He is still famous today and wrote a book. It seems that another one was hang on june 17 this year (also in Japan).


A german also answer a call on the web and volunteered to be eaten.


The people eating flesh on a regular basis are more of the ritualistic types. Africans were eating human hearts (for strentgh) as late as 1966 at Kolwezi. The father of my cousin's wife told him that he did eat some only something like 30 years ago (also from Democratic Republic of Congo). I'm not sure he was making joke.

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Hangfire7 09-03-2008, 05:21 PM Yes the insanity cannibalism has occured, and I do recall those incidents you metioned, there was another one in France, where the boyfreind was African I think and he thought she was so sweet he wanted to eat her, so he did.


And of course Chuchenyesku of Russia <i know his name is mispelled> Damer and Albert Fish and a host of others. Yes, the whole internet add in Germany was beyond bizzare!


Hang


About insanity cannibalism which is not that uncommon. In 1981 Issei Sagawa, a japanese student at the Sorbonne, made a nice meal out of his dutch pseudo-girlfriend in Paris.


He was sent back to japan (1983) where psychiatrist let him out stating he wasn't insane. He is still famous today and wrote a book. It seems that another one was hang on june 17 this year (also in Japan).


A german also answer a call on the web and volunteered to be eaten.


The people eating flesh on a regular basis are more of the ritualistic types. Africans were eating human hearts (for strentgh) as late as 1966 at Kolwezi. The father of my cousin's wife told him that he did eat some only something like 30 years ago (also from Democratic Republic of Congo). I'm not sure he was making joke.

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Targan 09-06-2008, 04:29 AM Anybody know of any sources for naval information, such as any good sources on the web for detailed information on cross ocean vessels, whether large or small?...


...I am trying to put this together for a cross-Atlantic voyage, and need all the help I can get.


Other info on this would help too, in terms of weather info, the different places throughout the ocean (Azores, Bermuda, notably), etc.Issue #60 of GDW's Challenge Magazine has expanded sailing rules for Twilight:2000 including stats and illustrations for a variety of sailing craft.

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weswood 09-06-2008, 06:34 AM Issue #60 of GDW's Challenge Magazine has expanded sailing rules for Twilight:2000 including stats and illustrations for a variety of sailing craft.


Do you have a copy of that you could email me?

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Targan 09-06-2008, 07:45 AM Do you have a copy of that you could email me?I would happily give it to you but herein lies the problem. The PDFs aren't OCR'd, they are basically images of the magazine pages and I only have Acrobat Reader so I can't cut the relevent section out and put it in a new, smaller PDF file. The complete Challenge #60 PDF is 71.5MB even when zipped and I can't attach files bigger than 10MB to emails with my Hotmail account.


Edit: PM me your email address Wes and anyone else who wants it and I'll send the article to you pasted into an MS Word document. I would just post it here but I don't want to run into any copyright issues.

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