Very OT but of Interest to the Likes that Hang Here

[CDAT]

I can only talk for myself and a bit the people that I talk with locally, but I find this interesting, and talk to people about it often.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

It's been more a case of questions such as: -
Do the Americans really not understand that it was not "Americans" fighting the British but that it was British colonists fighting against British authority?

I would have to say most "Americans" that I talk with do not understand this, on the surface they do but not really. I was talking about it the other day with my coworkers talking about the first civil war we had here and no one could understand tell I broke it down that we were all British citizens and a civil war is when you fight against you own people.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not understand that the militias were probably taught how to fight by the British Army so that they could defend against the indigenous peoples and also potential invasions from Britain's European rivals?

I may be wrong but my understanding is that to some extent that is correct but, mostly it is for the most part our real training came from the Prussians and French, they are what took our poorly equipped, and trained army and made it into something that could almost be call a real army.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not get taught that their famous generals were officers in the British military before they were in the Colonial army?

I think most do not understand this, as the impression that I get is most do not understand that most of the colonists did not plan to form their own country and thought of them self as British.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not learn enough history to know that the British were also fighting Spain and France at the same time as they were fighting the American colonies?

Depending on the school and the student. I took a US Wars of the 20th century class in college back in 95 or so and when we got to Desert Storm we had a very large part of the class ask what this was about, as they had never heard about it. They had never heard about Desert Storm, Desert Shield, or even the Persian Gulf War. It boggles my mind how you cannot know that it even happened for a war that every one of them was alive for and almost all of them were in high school when it happened. But as it did not involve them they did not care or pay attention is my guess.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not know that the war in the American colonies was an unpopular war in Britain and many British officers felt that they should not be making war on their colonial cousins but should be expending all their efforts against Spain/France etc. etc.?

The impression that I get is that most think we thought of our self as Americans even before the country was.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do the Americans not realize that they owe the French a debt of gratitude for all the assistance that France gave them and that without the Louisiana Purchase they would not exist in the form they are today?

I think that a lot of the time it is lost how much we owe the French for our independence. As for the Louisiana Purchase there are lots of things that if they happened different we would not be the same country we are today (Texas/Mexico, Alaska/Russia), so not sure that really fits.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not know that the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to the American people and had its origin in a similar project intended to stand at the entrance to the Suez Canal in imitation of the Colossus of Rhodes?

I think that most know that the French gave it to us, but not why. I did not know about the plans for the Suez Canal.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not get taught that France left NATO because DeGaulle felt Europe had been betrayed by the USA after JFK's declaration that the US would no longer consider using nuclear weapons as a first option if the USSR invaded Europe and that this action has influenced French foreign policy ever since?

Again I if you are not careful you learn something new every day.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Do they not realize that all their "cheese eating surrender monkey" comments just serve to reinforce the French belief of US betrayal?

I am sure that is 100% correct but they make it so hard sometimes. Again I am sure that all countries but head from time to time, but it seems that we (the Americans and French) are at odds with each other more than with any of our other allies.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I'm hoping my comments are not taken the wrong way as I intend no insult. It appears to many of us outsiders that US citizens can get very emotional when their country is discussed and often miss the point of what was being discussed because they perceive attacks where none were intended.

I take no insult from anything that was said, as I look at it as either it is true or a valid opinion, presented in a civil way.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I've had discussions with some friends who were either studying or lecturing at universities about the myth-making of America but the focus has been more on how the Wild West period has made such an impact given that it lasted a relatively short time. They found it interesting that relatively small pieces of US history were taken and given far more weight than they probably should have.

I see it in two parts, first it is part of what made our country what we are today, and second as we are a country without a long and deep history it is one of the things that sets us apart from most other countries.

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

It's been interesting trying to examine how the USA perceives itself. As an outsider to US culture, it's a little surprising to see that the USA has taken ownership of the terms "America" and "American" to refer exclusively to them because in some countries we were taught that America refers to the two continents. The inference was that anyone from North or South America was an American just like anyone from France or Poland or Greece was a European and anyone from China or Thailand or Indonesia was Asian.

I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that North and South America in a lot of ways do so little together, also being late to the world stage we do not really have the long and deep history that a lot of the other players on the world stage have. Now that is not to say that there is not long and deep history in any of the countries, but none of them that I know of are the same country or even an off shoot country of the history, it is now for lack of a better way of putting it a history footnote for the country, rather than national identity. Using an example the Aztec very old, very rich history but they are not the nation. France and England are the same country that they have been for a long time, but at the same time they are not, neither is a true monarchy anymore but the history is still there and the lines can be traced back to their foundation.