Tank Survivability c. 2000 and Tank Transporter Question

[Legbreaker]

I can't say much about today, but I do recall that for the majority of WWII, British tank designers were restricted to only the width that could be carried on British trains. Later in the war this restriction was dropped and some really good designs were finally able to see the light of day.

Modern tanks may not be as easily transportable by rail as one may wish. Tunnels constructed in the 19th and early 20th centuries as well as bridges are going to present serious hurdles for transportation which in some cases may force delays of hours, days or even weeks if an alternate route can't be found/used.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Modern tanks may not be as easily transportable by rail as one may wish. Tunnels constructed in the 19th and early 20th centuries as well as bridges are going to present serious hurdles for transportation which in some cases may force delays of hours, days or even weeks if an alternate route can't be found/used.

It will depend on the country and that will be hard to know. If I take the exemple of France and Belgium, it won't be a problem. Both countries have adapted their old 19th and early 20th centuries tunnels (or closed them). In addition, for France (I don't know for Belgium) our main land bases have a dedicated railway station. You should not forget that in most Western European countries, it is forbidden to roll your tanks on roads. Moving them with trucks in peacetime is extremely difficult. You need the authorizations, you need a special organization and our road tunnels have seldom been adapted.

Leg, you forgot something else. In Europe, trains have been used for centuries to move oversize goods.

I would suspect that to be true for Germany as well because it has a well developped railroad system.

I would be pretty confident for the Soviets also which are among the rare countries to retain dedicated railway troops.

One thing to check may be to see if a country has been developping the transportation system which consist of putting full trucks on train. If it has, you can be sure that tanks can be moved around that way. It's not absolutely accurate, however, as France for exemple can move tanks but has falleen behind in adopting that system for trucs.

What will remain an interesting source of problem, however, will be the difference between the rail system. A train leaving for France will not be able to go to Spain. A train from Russia will face similar problems... At least you can be sure to roll your trains from Paris to Warsaw. I took trains which were coming from Warsaw since I was a kid.

I hope all that is clear, I'm not sure.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Leg, you forgot something else. In Europe, trains have been used for centuries to move oversize goods.

Well, it was the British system that started it all off...

Elsewhere, as you rightly point out, it could well be a different story, but after a few months of combat, railway lines are sure to have been damaged, with bridges and tunnels destroyed. There will be limited routes available for the trains to take.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Well, it was the British system that started it all off...

Elsewhere, as you rightly point out, it could well be a different story, but after a few months of combat, railway lines are sure to have been damaged, with bridges and tunnels destroyed. There will be limited routes available for the trains to take.

Entirely agree. Railways are especially vulnerable and what you describe will be even more true after the first nukes start to fall. Nevertheless, I use them in my game and consider that in some areas (for exemple the trans-Siberian) large portions have been repaired. There are no more aircraft to destroy them and they have become less vulnerable again. I also use armored trains to protect them (more often than not a big word for reinforced wagons) and, again, as in WW2, these trains are carrying replacement rails. A trip by train can be very long.

The other main advantages come from the fact that I considered that a limited amount of steam powered locomotive are still available. Funny enough, you might have no train rolling in england but some in Wales (I think the wales have maintained part of their rolling stock in working order: Great Little Trains of Wales). The same will be true for Italy... New ones can even be built as they don't need modern machinery for their production.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Before you dismiss trains in England, look up the Strategic Steam Reserve
http://www.willys-mb.co.uk/strategic-reserve.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/Oubliet...atReserve.html

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Before you dismiss trains in England, look up the Strategic Steam Reserve
http://www.willys-mb.co.uk/strategic-reserve.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/Oubliet...atReserve.html

Thanks, great and very interesting.

However, I dismissed trains in England because of the amount of damage from the nukes more than because of the lack of locomotives.

Then, I'll have to change my mind for some locations such as HMG territories.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yes, the Krakow module takes into account. One has to remember to that the at this time the Polish 8th MRD commander had more or less decided not to leave Krakow. Not all units were so static, I always suspected how much staying power the tanks in lot of units that had more than a dozen AFVs operating in 2000. Reading through many of the Modules you find units operating units with only the coax MG being the only operational weapon on the vehicle. By 2000, if it was mobile and look menacing, it was good enough with hopes it would break those who they were about to engage. With a little hope they weren't armed with Anti-tank weapons.

I mean if I was Light Infantry or Militia and seen T-72, M1, Challenger, Leopard and etc. milling around and we didn't have any AT weapons at all. I wouldn't be to willing to risk life and limb to find out if the main gun and/or MG mounted on it were in working order. Even those unit in light wheeled vehicles would probably think twice.

Like has been stated many times, units commander as time went by would be almost unwilling to leave a vehicle at maintenance point due to not knowing when and if they would get a replacement as long as it was moving. Even knowing that damage was extreme to the armor where it should be left behind for needed repairs....