Other RPG Systems

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by spielmeister

Wow Mohoender, looks like you guys play/run lethal games judging from the bodycount. I should learn from you guys. I seem to be a bit too 'nice' to my players of late (not that anyone is complaining). But I notice that a reasonable degree of lethality always brings out the best in a player....

The problem is to reach the good balance. With AD&D the lethality is too high and doesn't help the game anymore. However, we make fun of the GM, pointing out that none of us ever saw the end of one his game.

For my part, I'm not all forgiving but the casualty rate of the Star wars game I sited was high. Nevertheless, it was justified. The team had to assassinate someone (an arm dealer) but, instead of entering the house and killing the guy, they chose to blow up the building (one of them bright idea) in the middle of an Imperial army base with a full navy group orbiting the planet. Saddly for them, the basement was full of explosives and the time on the charge they set up was too small (1 minute only) and they didn't have enough time to take cover (they let the bright guy do all the job ). In the game that ended with the Empire winning they put the mission on hold to save one of their comrade, they should have finished the mission first. As a result, they failed and the guy died anyway. If you forget to play with your brain you die. In T2K, that's even worse of course.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

The problem is to reach the good balance. With AD&D the lethality is too high and doesn't help the game anymore. However, we make fun of the GM, pointing out that none of us ever saw the end of one his game.

The good balance... A key element in the secret formula of a good roleplaying session! It's a work for the GM to garantee the balance. But I agree in the fact that some set of rules are too lethal.

But, with time and observation, I have built for myself the opinion that the major cause of mortality in a group of playing characters is "the hero that is struggling to reach the surface" in every player. Some setups or games allow the hero in nearly all the ocasions. Others allow it only in a certain extent. Generally, the player with a fire weapon will always try to shoot. The player with a sword will always try to swing it against the enemy. In a combat, the player thinks that his/her character is loosing time if he is not killing anybody. Things like retreat, wait, cover, defensive actions, etc, are secondary or only take into consideration if can be doing while attaking. So, a lot of time the character is exposing himself to the enemy. And if the set of rules is lethal... Sometimes a little tuning time may be required in more lethal set of rules.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Marc

But, with time and observation, I have built for myself the opinion that the major cause of mortality in a group of playing characters is "the hero that is struggling to reach the surface" in every player.

So true! They just forget that a hero is often dead meat.

[Targan]

Harnmaster/Gunmaster uses 10 second turns but alot can happen in a turn.

[headquarters]

more often than not I too find that in a game the players are the ones that make the desiscions that lead to PC fatalities.Stupid moves or facing overwhelming odds etc .

As you say -running away is what they think of last -and then its often too late .

I never make a "danger" that they cant get out of though -like a FAC team with a laser designator guiding prescison munitions down on them from 15000 feet without them knowing anything before it goes booom! Like in real life ,where artillery or air strikes occur that you cant defend against .

I find that the most rewarding thing is to present them with a choice -and then see what they gamble on .Of cours ethe choice needs to be a difficult one .."advance ,take th eposition and get the loot " or "run away and have your reputation in tatters"..hehe

The balance is difficult -but all important -I agree.

lastly I find that the players will tell you later that whenever they are struggeling to survive or the going is though will give a far better session for everybody than the ones where the riches pour in and the enemies are not that dangerous.

In other words - give them a position/status that they realize is valuable and than threathen it severly by for instance an advancing enemy force .If you want it more intense -hunt them like dogs ..

Also -if they are on the "last barricade" /back against the wall thats when team work and genuine joy for winning the fight is easiest to achieve .

Uncertainty and the percieved dangerous foe are the GMs best tools..

(imho - h meaning humble of course )

[spielmeister]

Originally Posted by headquarters

In other words - give them a position/status that they realize is valuable and than threathen it severly by for instance an advancing enemy force .If you want it more intense -hunt them like dogs ..

Also -if they are on the "last barricade" /back against the wall thats when team work and genuine joy for winning the fight is easiest to achieve .

HQ, I like the sound of that. Always the stuff of great games.

[spielmeister]

Originally Posted by Targan

Harnmaster/Gunmaster uses 10 second turns but alot can happen in a turn.

Targan, i forget but is 'gunmaster' a published set of rules? I googled it sometime back but could not find it (or maybe I flubbed roll on my computer skill).

[Targan]

Originally Posted by spielmeister

Targan, i forget but is 'gunmaster' a published set of rules? I googled it sometime back but could not find it (or maybe I flubbed roll on my computer skill).

Extensively written and playtested house rules by Bill Gant (another lad from Perth, Western Australia and I would say I am his disciple ). You'd need one of the editions of Harnmaster to use Gunmaster. There are a number of versions of Gunmaster, one for each of the various editions of Harnmaster. You can download heaps of Gunmaster stuff at www.warflail.com . On top of that I converted both Cyberpunk 2020 and T2K to Gunmaster so you'd need my T2K conversion as well but I'd happily send it to anyone who wanted it.

[spielmeister]

Originally Posted by Targan

Extensively written and playtested house rules by Bill Gant (another lad from Perth, Western Australia and I would say I am his disciple ). You'd need one of the editions of Harnmaster to use Gunmaster. There are a number of versions of Gunmaster, one for each of the various editions of Harnmaster. You can download heaps of Gunmaster stuff at www.warflail.com . On top of that I converted both Cyberpunk 2020 and T2K to Gunmaster so you'd need my T2K conversion as well but I'd happily send it to anyone who wanted it.

Thanks for the update. I'll check out the site.

[spielmeister]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

The problem is to reach the good balance. With AD&D the lethality is too high and doesn't help the game anymore. However, we make fun of the GM, pointing out that none of us ever saw the end of one his game.

Lol! Dunno if that's a compliment to the GM.

Originally Posted by Mohoender

For my part, I'm not all forgiving but the casualty rate of the Star wars game I sited was high. Nevertheless, it was justified. The team had to assassinate someone (an arm dealer) but, instead of entering the house and killing the guy, they chose to blow up the building (one of them bright idea) in the middle of an Imperial army base with a full navy group orbiting the planet. Saddly for them, the basement was full of explosives and the time on the charge they set up was too small (1 minute only) and they didn't have enough time to take cover (they let the bright guy do all the job ). In the game that ended with the Empire winning they put the mission on hold to save one of their comrade, they should have finished the mission first.

True. That approach is good as it keeps players focused. It's refreshing to see gamers playing both sides in the Star Wars millieu. Gives everyone a lot of opportunities for wheeling dealing and thuggery.

Originally Posted by Mohoender

As a result, they failed and the guy died anyway. If you forget to play with your brain you die. In T2K, that's even worse of course.

Always the best approach. Although deep inside no player really wants to have a character die, my group has matured a bit these days (or so i like to think!). a sort of its not whether you live or die but whether you played well and everyone had a great time. for some reason though, d&d4 brings out the power-gaming streak in them.