Batteries?

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I don't see a lot of difference between V1.0 and 2.0/2.2, but it is amazing how many people seem to think todays tech of today, or even 5-10 years ago, should have been available in T2K. In my view development on the whole ceased stone cold dead around 1997. There's sure to have been the oddd exceptions and some more consumer type tech might not have progressed past 1995-96, but mid 1997 is a good rule of thumb in my book.

While I try not to advance technology beyond 1996 (2001 for military wares) or so I do think the game designers under estimated the technological advancement which would take place in the civilian market in the 13 years between 1984 and 1997. For example I don't think they expected over 600 million personal computers to be in use in 1997. To quote "Free City of Krakow"

Among the casualties of the war were hundreds of thousands of microcomputers

That means 599 million are left

[Legbreaker]

Very true. But it's the same with most tech really. Think back ten years ago and try to remember how many flat screen TVs were out there and how much they cost to buy. You basically had to have a second mortgage to afford one and even then they were big and bulky things that tended to be in for repairs more often than working.
Now you can't buy anything but flatscreens - believe me, I've tried about 2 years ago to replace a unit in a building I manage.

Who could have said that would be the market penetration even just 5-6 years ago!? All in all I think the designers did about as well as could be expected predicting the future of tech at the time. It's not like they were Futurists is it. (Yes, that is an actual profession!)

[Dog 6]

"That means 599 million are left " WooT

[Cdnwolf]

No Batteries? You mean I have to blow up my rubber doll manually???

(I sit it next to me in the Hummer and put General stars on its flak helmet... amazing how many times its been shot at and not me!!)

[Mahatatain]

A point to add into this discussion:

Would places like France that were less damaged by the war have become a source of batteries and other tech gear? I have no idea whether France actually manufacture their own batteries at present but I would imagine that as the rest of the world is collapsing due to the war that they would ensure that they could manufacture key pieces of technology like this as they have retained much of their industrial capacity.

I mention France because I'm playing a French character in Raellus' online game but the same may also be true of places like Australia and New Zealand who've suffered less from the effects of the war.

What do people think?

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

Would places like France that were less damaged by the war have become a source of batteries and other tech gear? I have no idea whether France actually manufacture their own batteries at present but I would imagine that as the rest of the world is collapsing due to the war that they would ensure that they could manufacture key pieces of technology like this as they have retained much of their industrial capacity.

I found a summary of a Marketing Report on batteries (Report itself is $$$) which lists the following countries in Europe as major battery suppliers. (Given the countries are not in alphabetical order I am assuming that it is by some sort of production ranking)

Primary
Germany
France
United Kingdom
Italy
Spain
Secondary
Netherlands
Belgium
Sweden
Austria
Switzerland

Raw materials will be a problem but from my perspective France will be THE major source of batteries in Europe post TDM. Spain, Switzerland, and Sweden would be potential sources.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by kato13

I found a summary of a Marketing Report on batteries (Report itself is $$$) which lists the following countries in Europe as major battery suppliers. (Given the countries are not in alphabetical order I am assuming that it is by some sort of production ranking)

Primary
Germany
France
United Kingdom
Italy
Spain
Secondary
Netherlands
Belgium
Sweden
Austria
Switzerland

Raw materials will be a problem but from my perspective France will be THE major source of batteries in Europe post TDM. Spain, Switzerland, and Sweden would be potential sources.

Wouldn't all these battery factories be looted and horded by the authorities? I guess that would make a good Twilight mission- stealing batteries out of government warehouses.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Very true. But it's the same with most tech really. Think back ten years ago and try to remember how many flat screen TVs were out there and how much they cost to buy. You basically had to have a second mortgage to afford one and even then they were big and bulky things that tended to be in for repairs more often than working.
Now you can't buy anything but flatscreens - believe me, I've tried about 2 years ago to replace a unit in a building I manage.

Who could have said that would be the market penetration even just 5-6 years ago!? All in all I think the designers did about as well as could be expected predicting the future of tech at the time. It's not like they were Futurists is it. (Yes, that is an actual profession!)

IIRC, most flatscreens, well, LCD types, were mainlt used in handheld portable TV's 10 years ago and even as early as the 1980's for that. BTW, our main TV in the house, we bought it early in 1983, it is a 1982 Zenith. It has been in daily use for 27 years and still going. I just hooked a Blu-Ray player to the old Zenith. It is kind of weird that I'm still using the same TV now as I did when I was a sophomore in high school when the "A-Team" first came on. To keep it Twilight related, I remember watching "The Day After" on it.

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

I remember reading an old 1950's era book on electronics where they had an article on recycling one of the old beer can sized batteries they had in those days. It was able to be done at home with common chemicals and if a kid did it, under adult supervision.

Chuck

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

IIRC, most flatscreens, well, LCD types, were mainlt used in handheld portable TV's 10 years ago and even as early as the 1980's for that. BTW, our main TV in the house, we bought it early in 1983, it is a 1982 Zenith. It has been in daily use for 27 years and still going. I just hooked a Blu-Ray player to the old Zenith. It is kind of weird that I'm still using the same TV now as I did when I was a sophomore in high school when the "A-Team" first came on. To keep it Twilight related, I remember watching "The Day After" on it.

Chuck

Wow! The only stuff I still have that old are some cassettes (long-since ripped to MP3) and books! Though I am am still watching a CRT-type TV -- it still works.

[B.T.]

Now, this question may seem dumb, but I'm really not shure:

Are batteries produced according to some kind of international standard? Reason for asking: Do Soviet forces (or any other WarPac armies) use the same kind of batteries as Western militaries? During my last FtF-session the characters looted some Polish radios. No one of us was really shure, if those radios may be equipped with batteries the PCs have in their belongings.

[HorseSoldier]

This PDF lists info on common battery types, with several of them including Soviet designations among other names for the type. It looks like common stuff like AA, 9 volt, and similar types had Soviet counterparts. Batteries for specialized military equipment aren't discussed, but I'm pretty sure there would be no interoperability across NATO/Warsaw Pact lines with that sort of stuff, unless the items used standard battery types like AA batteries for US NODS.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I just kind of handwave the battery issue. As alternative vehicle fuels were found, post '97 the home-grown battery business found equal purchase. Hollow out a battery, put new chemicals/metals back in (scavenged from elsewhere), et voila.

Maybe that's not how it works in real life...but, hell, by canon a limited nuclear exchange somehow involved countervalue strikes and didn't escalate to the "5000 warheads over the 'Pole" nightmare it should've!

Also: re laptops...when I came on board at my company's IT department in 2000, we had piles and piles and piles of '486 and Pentium I laptops from '94-'96 and were starting to phase out low-end (233-266mhz) Pentium IIs for 333-400mhz Pentium IIs.

Thing is, part of the IT boom (consumer and professional) from '90 onward was predicated on a lot of technologies being freed up from wartime restrictions (and we were on a war footing from '45 onward, trust me). Without the fall of the USSR, I wonder if that pace of development wouldn't have been much, much slower. I mean, sure, more computers in more homes still, but perhaps as much as an order of magnitude fewer - maybe 10-20 million in the US, with 9-10 million utterly destroyed by EMP etc., and the rest either forgotten/waiting to be recovered "someday" or squarely in the hands of MilGov, CivGov or New America.

Phew, sorry for rambling.

Anyway! Batteries! Yes, batteries IMC are manufactured much like ammo and so forth - it can be done locally without too much effort.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by kato13

While I try not to advance technology beyond 1996 (2001 for military wares) or so I do think the game designers under estimated the technological advancement which would take place in the civilian market in the 13 years between 1984 and 1997. For example I don't think they expected over 600 million personal computers to be in use in 1997. To quote "Free City of Krakow"


That means 599 million are left

come to think of it, if computers did follow the same route generally in the Twilight line as they did in true life, the highest tech computer would be like a Pentium II.

Chuck