Submarine | Satelite launch facilities

[kato13]

This post in the Maps thread in the T2k forum reminded me of something I thought of a long time ago.

Originally Posted by natehale1971

A soviet Typhoon class submarine i found at a Stargate SG1 RPG resource site...
http://www.digifruit.com/aimi/nateha...20Zhagadka.pdf

What if the Morrow Project got a hold of the "Red October" after it defected to the CIA. It was to be used as a floating launch station for Morrow Project Satellites. It could also be used to very covert transportation missions after it completed its initial functions.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by kato13

This post in the Maps thread in the T2k forum reminded me of something I thought of a long time ago.

What if the Morrow Project got a hold of the "Red October" after it defected to the CIA. It was to be used as a floating launch station for Morrow Project Satellites. It could also be used to very covert transportation missions after it completed its initial functions.

i've been thinking of the Morrow Project launching stations to put satelites up into orbit... Especially since it would be extremely likely that the preexisting facilities would have been hit by nukes.. So the project would need to build some of their own... I had thought of a facility being built like the satelitte control centre used to take control of the soviet secret weapon the "Goldeneye" in the James Bond movie by the same name... The entire "Goldeneye" facility was under an artificial lake... And there was another James Bond Movie (with Sean Connery) where the launch facility was inside a dead volcano, with a retractable 'mountain cap' that allowed them to launch heavy lift rockets... Those too would be a damn good possibility as well...

[sic1701]

There's no law that says Trident II submarine-launched ballistic missiles need to be launched from submarines.

Another poster mentioned an isolated island out in Lake Huron, sparsely populated, that would be an ideal acquisition by Morrow Industries, Ltd. Caissons could be constructed on the shoreline then rolled into the lake and emplaced on the lake floor as silos for SLBMs. On the island a small pre-existing airfield and facilities are expanded and a small aircraft plant is built for business jets such as Gulfstreams, Lear Jets, etc. Whatever aircraft is constructed, the fuselage is slightly longer than and larger in diameter than a Trident II SLBM. The fuselages are constructed at a mainland facility in Utah, then shipped via rail to a Project marine terminal on the Great Lakes, such as Michigan's relatively secluded Upper Peninsula, then barged out to the island where final assembly is conducted.

I am not sure where Tridents are manufactured in real-life. But it stands to reason that they are transported from their manufacturing facility to the various submarine bases via rail. In keeping with a cargo-tunnel complex built on an old former short-line railroad in the Rockies (and now called MorrowRail) as described in an earlier thread, a small shipment of a half-dozen Tridents could roll into the tunnel enroute to a Navy submarine base and be offloaded into temporary storage while after a suitable interval to reflect a slow tunnel voyage, a small train with Trident mock-ups that is already positioned near the tunnel exit could leave the tunnel, thereby fooling satellite or aircraft coverage that the shipment is intact and the train continued through the tunnel slowly but surely.

Later, a trainload of aircraft fuselages would arrive at the tunnel complex, while the Tridents (now embedded within a fuselage shipment that arrived days earlier to the tunnel complex and were offloaded) are positioned near the tunnel exit.

And then a few days later a trainload of "aircraft fuselages" arrive at the Morrow marine terminal on the Great Lakes, then barged to the island. When the coast is clear of onlookers (with the exception of Morrow-employed photographers to document what happens next), they are offloaded...but then tragedy strikes! A barge sinks with several fuselages! Satellite imagery shows an upended sunken barge, reinforced with photographs and a news report of a sunken barge, and MorrowAir writes off a dozen fuselages but in reality Morrow scuba teams and aquatic engineers strip the fuselages underwater and emplace the Tridents, safely in waterproof cannisters (I don't know if they travel in said cannisters straight from the manufacturer or if the tunnel folks would place the missiles in them...), into the offshore submerged silos.

A special barge or boat parked over the submerged silo could deploy some kind of airlock over the silo lid, open the silo and cannister, winch the missile up into the airlock, remove the Trident nose cap (the warheads are kept at the Navy submarine bases), then put their own satellites in them.

And in the interim, a trainload of six "Trident SLBMs" derails and violently explodes inside a tunnel of a short-line railroad (also a wholly-owned subsidiary of MorrowRail) somewhere in the South between the tunnel complex in the Rockies and, say, Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay, Georgia, destroying the tunnel...and eliminating the possibility of Navy personnel discovering the ruse and the missing Tridents.

For that matter, it is entirely possible with the resources of the Morrow Project that they may even possess a limited nuclear capability, whether obtained from the government, skimmed from other Morrow Industries subsidiaries related to the nuclear energy industry, or seized later from military bases reeling from the nuclear attacks. There may even be a special team with its own VTOL transportation at the island with instructions to wait until after-action reports from satellite imagery (courtesy of MorrowSpace) indicate what military installations within VTOL range that possess nuclear warheads in storage are still intact, or reasonably enough so that the special team can deploy to seize those nuclear assets. Got a Minuteman III that failed to launch but still has it's silo lid off? Ideal!

In fact, that may even be how Krell obtained the nuclear weapon with which he attacked Prime Base in the original MP game history.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by sic1701

And in the interim, a trainload of six "Trident SLBMs" derails and violently explodes inside a tunnel of a short-line railroad (also a wholly-owned subsidiary of MorrowRail) somewhere in the South between the tunnel complex in the Rockies and, say, Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay, Georgia, destroying the tunnel...and eliminating the possibility of Navy personnel discovering the ruse and the missing Tridents.

I really like this.

[clivegh]

There is a lot of decommission Titan Missile Bases all throughout the US. The Project could have bought one and used the Silo or Silos to house a few pre built launch systems to get comm sat up in Orbit. No Need for a Sub or anything as there is a Lot of available silos everywhere.

[sic1701]

While it is accepted by the general taxpaying public that ICBM silos are sometimes a military necessity in certain areas of the United States, it would be quite a leap for neighbors to equally accept a commercial satellite launch facility in their back yard.

If the Titan that previously inhabited the silo was launched and then blew up, they'd figure WW3 was kicking off anyway but if a MorrowSpace missile blew up there'd be a lot of legal entanglements, public hearings, things that would make it difficult to continue that capability...and could potentially bring the media spotlight upon the Project.

And the whole point of the hidden silo(s) in Lake Huron would be to keep Project space launch assets hidden in the first place...what is hidden is not subject to meddlesome government oversight, or public (read:media) scrutiny.

ESPECIALLY if there may be a plan to use it to launch a nuclear warhead recovered from a wrecked military installation.

No, if the pre-war Project did decide to involve themselves in the space-launch industry they'd probably partner with someone else to share the expensive burden and limit themselves to comsats with dedicated Project channels (helping to assure overall Project security).

[Spec6]

Why not just have the Satelites sent up by the French or even the Chinese and set them in a staple orbit and have them power down until needed .

[clivegh]

I think I have a bit of a different take on the project than you

Its a lot easier to buy a titan missile silo in the desert and set up a Hidden Sat launch site than it would be to build a Sub which can launch an ICBM and then hide it in a lake.

If you do a google search, you will find decommissioned Titan Missile Sites all over the US with many of them miles and miles away from anyone (Such as the desert or in up state New York).

I just bring it up, as there here, cheap, built to take a Near by Nuke Hit, and have all the needs to launch a missile.

If a Morrow Industries company bought one of these for "tests" of a new defense system (ABM) no one would think anything of it.

I tend to always look for the simple solution instead of the more fantastic.

Thanks

Clive

[kato13]

An abandoned silo might be targeted. If it hosts some sort of ABM program even more so.

I also never expected the project to build a sub, maybe a large freighter capable of launches, but not a sub. I thought of having the Red October captured by the CIA in my game world. Since the Project has some aspects of a reverse Glomar Explorer in my game (industrialists asking for help from high level CIA officials), I thought that the sub, rather than being scuttled, could be used as the base for Satellite launches. This allows a equator launch which helps orbital insertion and avoids serious polar magnetic interference. That is also why if I chose an island it would the the ones off Costa Rica from the Jurassic Park series.

As far as the island in the great lakes goes, I have now decided that one of the industrialists will fake a assassination attempt and then declare he is buying the island and living in protected seclusion (maybe a little Howard Hughes comparison). The construction of his mansion will cover the construction of a high altitude balloon based communications center for the Midwest and East coast elements of the project.

[clivegh]

Thats a cool link. I never knew that they built a ship to get the russian sub.

Thanks for the info!

[sic1701]

Clivegh, you have a good idea but there a lot of other considerations involved with using an old Titan II missile silo. Or Atlas, or decommissioned Minuteman II, or any other silo previously owned by the federal government.

New activity and construction at a decommissioned Titan or other missile site, even one way the out in the middle of a desert, will attract unwanted attention. Possibly very unwelcome media scrutiny. At the very least, aerospace fans will check out the goings-on and report on them to other fan organizations, and you can bet your Atlas that Aviation Week and Space Technology will feature an article. Considering that (as far as I know) there were no privately-owned space launch facilities in the United States in the 1980s, there may be a lot of media interest. In my line of work (locomotive engineer for a Class A railroad), the foamers' (rail fanatics) websites frequently report stuff before my employer issues a press release. All the guys who camp out as close to "Area 51" as they can with binoculars and expensive digital camera equipment would still be there, looking for elusive secret military aircraft...but they have a lot of curious friends.

And while MorrowSpace could report that they are rehabilitating the decommissioned Titan as a satellite launch facility (such activity would require a cover story prepared well in advance to mask and safeguard the Project as well as long-lead contracts with the government/communications corporations who would own the satellite/materials suppliers who build the sats and missiles, etc.), the government would need to have some involvement as they owned the site...and the airspace above it. Nosy neighbors (I use the term "neighbors" to encompass everyone affected by the thunderous, rolling-on-for-miles, sound waves from a missile launch as well as farmers and ranchers whose crops or stocks would be/could be adversely affected by either a rocket launch...or a rocket malfunction)(and don't EVEN get me started on the monkey wrenches that the environmental activists could throw into the works), whether they approve of the rehabilitation or not, could complain to the government, petition the government to slow or cancel the project at various local/state/federal levels, or otherwise bring a lot of unwanted attention to the modification of a launch site.

A possible angle on this situation would be MorrowSpace purchasing the site, bringing teams in for "environmental clean-up pending the rehabilitation of the silo for launching comsats" which would in reality be constructing caches or paving the way for an expansion into underground facilities, and while the satellite launch portion of our show may be delayed indefinitely due to court injunctions brought on by neighbors or local government (or a well-orchestrated campaign by Morrow Industries itself to distract the media from building a cache or expanding it, while simultaneously explaining away the prescence of large amounts of men and materials as prep work in anticipation of winning the ensuing court cases...), the site could still be of great use to the Project even if the launch facility is never actually operational.

Kato hit on a good idea...wealthy billionaire decides to seclude himself from society and builds a gigantic island mansion, with all the bells and whistles. Any unusual items therein can be explained away as eccentricities. Perhaps he could even open a small and modest private military museum, thereby explaining the prescence of certain military aircraft, vehicles, weaponry and equipment (which would, of course, be operational or could be brought operational in short order...).

And what Soviet strategic planning targeter in his right mind would waste a nuclear warhead on some rich American's little island, well away from anyplace they'd be interested in? Targeting a rehabilitated Titan silo being used by a private company, yes; I don't believe Soviet military thinking (either in the Cold War 80s or even modern-day...) figures a difference between a privately-owned sat launch complex and a military-industrial complex government-owned by the United States. The private complex could be used as a strategic asset by the government, whether by fiat in military-national security necessity in the event of the destruction of federally-owned and operated launch centers, or used by prior arrangement with the aerospace corporation which owns the launch site. Targeting some rich nut in the middle of a lake, no.

In addition, though the Titans were decommissioned several years before the 1989 wardate used in the game, I would be inclined to believe that the Sovs would have continued to target the silos until such time as Soviet verification teams could inspect the sites themselves to determine their non-operation. We wouldn't simply take the Soviets for their word that they decommissioned a missile base just because they said so. And I doubt the Project would invest so substantially in a space launch capability if they thought Soviet high-yield nuclear warheads would likely be dropped on it, regardless how hardened or well-stocked the underground complex is...remember, not only would you need to be able to use the launch complex post-attack for Project needs, but you'd need to be able to access the site from the outside to bring in supplies, food and water, more missiles and satellites, personnel, etc, and you wouldn't want to have to do that across an expanse filled with gigantic groundburst craters, hissing with radioactivity.

And if the Sovs even thought for a microsecond that the silo was being used for ABM tests, not only would they give it the thermonuclear smack but probably target additional warheads against it...just to be sure.

Kato, I was thinking more along the lines of a decommissioned Lafayette/Benjamin Franklin-class SSBN, retired from strategic deterrence duty, being outfitted under a joint federal government/MorrowSpace/MorrowMarine venture to "test the concept" of mobile satellite launch facilities around the equator...

[kato13]

Originally Posted by sic1701

Kato hit on a good idea...wealthy billionaire decides to seclude himself from society and builds a gigantic island mansion, with all the bells and whistles. Any unusual items therein can be explained away as eccentricities. Perhaps he could even open a small and modest private military museum, thereby explaining the prescence of certain military aircraft, vehicles, weaponry and equipment (which would, of course, be operational or could be brought operational in short order...).

The island has a small airfield so I can see some WW-II aircraft. I also like the idea of the Industrialist being a WW-II historian and perhaps gathering his own fleet of DUKWs for resupply of the island.

[sic1701]

In addition, WW2-era aircraft may be highly resistant (if not altogether immune...) to the effects of electromagnetic pulse.

[sic1701]

And any aircraft/vehicle/computer equipment sensitive the effects of electomagnetic pulse that aren't needed until after the nuclear strikes could be buried in a gigantic double-walled concrete bunker with a layer of oil between them (and filled with tiny metal wires) to protect the interior from EMP.

[ex3313]

Just a couple items all of the early polaris boats had their missile decks removed due to SALT treatys the Ohio class may not be under that restraint
also SLBM's are a cold launch system the birds require about 3G's before they will light off

[Matt W]

Why launch satellites at all? Before satellites, there was stratovision

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratovision

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ybhnyrn

Much easier to arrange. Given the miniaturisation of electronics, you might even be able to do it with Airscouts