Weapons Timelines for the Twilight War

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

There's quite a few weapons in the world that can only be fired from the right shoulder without ending up with hot brass in the face.

The M-16A1 is like that for lefties. I remember one time on the range with some ROTC cadets; one female cadet had, you might say, a big pocket for the hot brass to go down...hilarity ensued.

[perardua]

In training, it is taught that the L85 is to be fired from the right shoulder only, and whilst I have never tried to use it from the left shoulder, I imagine that there would be an issue with both hot brass (though the A2 throws it forward a lot better than the A1), and also with the fact that if you're not careful the cocking handle may be coming uncomfortably close to your face as it moves back and forth. In fact, if you look at an L85, you will see the cheek piece does not extend to the right hand side of the rifle, and that the cocking handle (which is fixed to and moves with the bolt as it cycles, comes back to where the cheek would be if firing from the left shoulder).
Also, in my experience, shooting from the right shoulder is the main, if not only shooting method taught to conventional units in the British military regardless of the weapon system, though this is probably due to the fact that as the rifle, common to all units, can only be fired from the right shoulder, it is the method that seems natural when firing other weapons. Indeed, even those few weapons were left handed firing is permitted on ranges (the pistol springs to mind), the majority of left handed shooters have become so used to firing right handed they will continue to do so.
As for the effect this has on FIBUA tactics, it does mean that shooting round corners to the left requires greater body exposure. As for patrolling, we still maintain the old adage of weapons moving with your eyes, but you can still cover your arcs without switching shoulders. You just have to move your body!
As for reloading times, I've used conventional layout weapons only a few times, mainly the M16 and M4, and find that I am slower to reload with those than I am with the L85, though I suspect that's a familiarity issue, and that practice plays a greater role in reloading speed. It might also be true that someone joining, for example, the US military, is more likely to become familiar with a conventionally laid out rifle before joining than in the UK, where for nearly every person joining the forces, their first experience with a weapon will be with the bullpup L85.
Finally, on the subject of one handed use, the L85 is extremely easy to use one handed, which comes in handy when, for example, opening doors, throwing grenades and using radioes. Of course, if you get stuck with a UGL and LLM like I did on my last tour, it becomes very front heavy very quickly! I was very jealous of all the riflemen on the Section, with their new grip-pods (vertical forward handgrips with a pop out bipod, spoken of favourably by nearly everyone).

Oh, and one final tale on the hot brass front: On an inter-Section defence range the LMG gunner sharing my trench managed to get a bursts worth of brass down the front of my shirt as I was crouching reloading the UGL (that being the day where I was carrying 96 rounds of 40mm due to the ammo nearing its expiry date). With great presence of mind (I like to think), I calmly safetied my weapon, placed it on the rim of the trench pointing down range, and then proceeded to go mental digging out four casings from my chest and stomach. At the end of the day the range supervisor asked if anyone had been injured. I said that I had, and he asked why I hadn't seen a medic at the time. My reply, naturally, was "Because I'm hard, Sergeant." He awarded our Section 10 extra points for that, and I got some new scars.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by perardua

In training, it is taught that the L85 is to be fired from the right shoulder only, and whilst I have never tried to use it from the left shoulder, I imagine that there would be an issue with both hot brass (though the A2 throws it forward a lot better than the A1), and also with the fact that if you're not careful the cocking handle may be coming uncomfortably close to your face as it moves back and forth. In fact, if you look at an L85, you will see the cheek piece does not extend to the right hand side of the rifle, and that the cocking handle (which is fixed to and moves with the bolt as it cycles, comes back to where the cheek would be if firing from the left shoulder).
Also, in my experience, shooting from the right shoulder is the main, if not only shooting method taught to conventional units in the British military regardless of the weapon system, though this is probably due to the fact that as the rifle, common to all units, can only be fired from the right shoulder, it is the method that seems natural when firing other weapons. Indeed, even those few weapons were left handed firing is permitted on ranges (the pistol springs to mind), the majority of left handed shooters have become so used to firing right handed they will continue to do so.
As for the effect this has on FIBUA tactics, it does mean that shooting round corners to the left requires greater body exposure. As for patrolling, we still maintain the old adage of weapons moving with your eyes, but you can still cover your arcs without switching shoulders. You just have to move your body!
As for reloading times, I've used conventional layout weapons only a few times, mainly the M16 and M4, and find that I am slower to reload with those than I am with the L85, though I suspect that's a familiarity issue, and that practice plays a greater role in reloading speed. It might also be true that someone joining, for example, the US military, is more likely to become familiar with a conventionally laid out rifle before joining than in the UK, where for nearly every person joining the forces, their first experience with a weapon will be with the bullpup L85.
Finally, on the subject of one handed use, the L85 is extremely easy to use one handed, which comes in handy when, for example, opening doors, throwing grenades and using radioes. Of course, if you get stuck with a UGL and LLM like I did on my last tour, it becomes very front heavy very quickly! I was very jealous of all the riflemen on the Section, with their new grip-pods (vertical forward handgrips with a pop out bipod, spoken of favourably by nearly everyone).

Oh, and one final tale on the hot brass front: On an inter-Section defence range the LMG gunner sharing my trench managed to get a bursts worth of brass down the front of my shirt as I was crouching reloading the UGL (that being the day where I was carrying 96 rounds of 40mm due to the ammo nearing its expiry date). With great presence of mind (I like to think), I calmly safetied my weapon, placed it on the rim of the trench pointing down range, and then proceeded to go mental digging out four casings from my chest and stomach. At the end of the day the range supervisor asked if anyone had been injured. I said that I had, and he asked why I hadn't seen a medic at the time. My reply, naturally, was "Because I'm hard, Sergeant." He awarded our Section 10 extra points for that, and I got some new scars.

Wow, it's weird how different the U.K.'s and U.S.A.'s style is. I remember when I was a boot new to the fleet and we tired swinging the other direction with our body so our weapon could face a contact. We got degraded fast! Next we thought we would be smart and try to find the lefties among us to cover the right flank, that really pissed off our seniors. Shooting and patrolling opposite handed was never as natural, but it did become easier.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

Wow, it's weird how different the U.K.'s and U.S.A.'s style is. I remember when I was a boot new to the fleet and we tired swinging the other direction with our body so our weapon could face a contact. We got degraded fast! Next we thought we would be smart and try to find the lefties among us to cover the right flank, that really pissed off our seniors. Shooting and patrolling opposite handed was never as natural, but it did become easier.

That is how we were taught, back in the day. I'm willing to bet if they ever stopped doing that training, they're doing it again now. Right shoulder, left shoulder, laying on your back (gutter-prone), aimed fire from low-crawl prone, etc. The M16A2 and later are better for lefties -- a brass deflector is machined into the upper receiver.

[Webstral]

I've never been a believer in ambidexterity. If a unit is looking for ways to eat up its allocation of ammunition, then opposite-hand marksmanship is a fun passtime. Some people (not me) even get good at it. But if a unit is already groaning about the expense of ammunition, I say save the ambidexterity for nocturnal fantasies and reinforce the dominant hand and eye. I've trained with a few guys who insisted that riflemen on the right side of the wedge carry their weapons like lefties. The weapon might have been pointed in the right direction for a fast hip shot, but that's about as far as the advantage would have gone with me and most of the guys I've ever trained with. Rangers, 82nd Airborne, Delta... maybe it's different for them. For the rest of us, it would be far more pratical to take the extra half-second to turn the body enough to get an aimed right-handed shot off (if one were engage from the standing position) and invest scarce range time and ammunition in improving the dominant hand and eye.

Webstral

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I remember one time on the range with some ROTC cadets; one female cadet had, you might say, a big pocket for the hot brass to go down...hilarity ensued.

I don't understand. Perhaps someone could draw a picture? Maybe we could hire someone to do a re-enactedment? Catherine Bell, perhaps?

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I don't understand. Perhaps someone could draw a picture? Maybe we could hire someone to do a re-enactedment? Catherine Bell, perhaps?

Webstral

If Catherine Bell a lefty? Might be better if she were ambidextrous...uh oh.. severe danger of thread drift...<wrenching my mind out of the gutter>

[pmulcahy11b]

I understand how you feel about the L85. I think I said earlier in the thread that in the circumstances, I would probably default to an M16, because, despite the fact that I'm not impressed by it, I know what it can and can't do, I have the muscle memory, and I know how to maintain it and what parts need extra attention. I also remember my battlesight zero, with glasses and with contact lenses (they're different for me).