Twilight 2013

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

I think the real lesson here is: Don't run out of ammo.

But once the electricity has stopped and the factories are no longer working and the skilled workers are all dead or impressed into military or farm service EVERYONE is going to run out of ammo.
Unless they can make their own

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

But once the electricity has stopped and the factories are no longer working and the skilled workers are all dead or impressed into military or farm service EVERYONE is going to run out of ammo.
Unless they can make their own

Two words: Sticks and stones...

BTW, does anyone remember the Microgame called Sticks & Stones that was made by Metagaming (later Steve Jackson Games) in the late 1970s? It was about warfare in the Stone Age -- scenarios included inter-tribal warfare, hunting large game, and one really big scenario that someone came up with in Space Gamer magazine that pitted Cro-Magnons against Neanderthals. Talk about taking warfare down to its roots!

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

The bullets would not be the constraining factor I think in the reload process in Europe or other locations (even in US after the TDM), rather the primers. Bullets can be cast from lead (or gold??? silver??) where as the primers are MUCH more difficult to construct, not saying it can't be done, just extremely difficult. Even more so than powder.. Which lends a thought of revolver v. semiauto.. I think you could use black powder in ANY revolver load (experimentation required for the proper amount of course) while I seriously doubt you could get a semi-auto to function for long using said 'dirty' propellant. ?????

Grae

Provided you had dies to make the bullets with, or the skills to make them (a lot of stuff in T2K is real easy if you have the knowledge to build the tools needed to build the tools . . .).

Revolvers and black powder should work out well -- all revolver cases are oversized for what they are and so you'd better be able to deal with the drop in power by switching to black powder. You'd still have fairly anemic loads compared to +P+ smokeless loadings, but you'd be putting rounds downrange when a semi-auto couldn't.

Blackpowder will work in semi-autos if you're willing to accept that your weapon is going to be a straight-pull bolt action. You likely wouldn't ever get enough pressure to cycle actions built for more modern powders at all, or possibly just enough to get misfires even if the weapon is spotlessly clean.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Bullets can be cast from lead (or gold??? silver??)

Does anyone know any real information about using these metals in bullets? I've heard that a gold bullet would be dense and heavy, but pretty soft; it would have poor penetration, but make a bigger mess than a dumdum on soft tissue. I don't have any real idea what the characteristics of a silver bullet would actually be.

I remember asking this on the Yahoo group about 10 years ago, but never really got a good answer: on some cop show, they couldn't at first find the bullet in the body, even though there was no exit wound. It turns out that the bullet was made of ground beef frozen in liquid nitrogen. Other than the difficulties of keeping such a bullet frozen, what would the characteristics of a ground-beef bullet really be?

I saw an episode of Mythbusters a few months ago, where they tested the idea of an ice bullet. Turned out that every time they tried to fire the ice bullet (even when frozen in liquid nitrogen), the bullet just shattered inside the barrel and did no damage to the target. So that idea's out the window.

[HorseSoldier]

Hmmm -- interesting question, and I don't really have any answers.

Silver is nearly the same specific gravity as lead, so a silver bullet should retain energy and such as well as a lead projectile. No idea on how the other characteristics of the metal would translate into ballistic performance.

I'd think a gold bullet would behave like a lead one, only be quite a bit heavier. You might have to use some sort of gas check or similar to protect the base of the bullet from powder gasses (and some sort of jacket as well if you're using it in an autoloader).

[Gabe The Gun]

Originally Posted by leonpoi

How's the initiative system? Does it play out too slow?

I was put off because of the amount of modifiers: your stance, enemy stance, movements, range, weapon type, etc, etc. I liked the idea of all of these things being included but it just seemed too much. What's your view?

We have had combat and now I can answer your question. I would not say the initiative system is too slow. While it may not be the fastest of other systems I think it plays out fine. We had fun and the game rolled on quite smoothly. I give it a thumbs up! I definitely like the details of combat with 2013.

[leonpoi]

Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun

We have had combat and now I can answer your question. I would not say the initiative system is too slow. While it may not be the fastest of other systems I think it plays out fine. We had fun and the game rolled on quite smoothly. I give it a thumbs up! I definitely like the details of combat with 2013.

Interesting to hear. I might break it out and have another look at it. I agree with you that the details are quite good - especially the gun range and visual range modifiers being split.

[Gabe The Gun]

Originally Posted by leonpoi

Interesting to hear. I might break it out and have another look at it. I agree with you that the details are quite good - especially the gun range and visual range modifiers being split.

Yeah man, I would definitely dig it up and give it a try. I really must press the issue on you about TRYING it, the way I see it you really got to get some people together a actually PLAY the game before you can opinionize it brother. I only say this because alot of people I know could have passed on the system as well for it seemed too complicated and involved to run smoothly, but when they actually got some gametime in with it ,they saw as well as I did at how smoothly the system really does run. And it rocks! The detail in the game and combat are sweet, the details in combat really play out a story so you can imagine exactly whats happening. Its something else man! 93 Games Studio really knocked this game out of the park, and hopefully when you get some gametime in you'll see exactly what I mean my friend.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Provided you had dies to make the bullets with, or the skills to make them (a lot of stuff in T2K is real easy if you have the knowledge to build the tools needed to build the tools . . .).

Too true.. KNOWLEDGE is the KEY weapon in survival, along with APPLICATION for said knowledge.