Mil-18 hip weapon system question

[General Pain]

HOW much and what kind of weapon systems can be fitted ?

Are there any specific limits ?

[Eddie]

Straight from the official OPFOR Worldwide Equipment Guide...

Weapon & Ammunition Types
2x 7.62-mm or 1x 12.7-mm MG

Other Loading Options
AT-2C or AT-3 ATGMs x 4-6

57-mm rocket pods (16 each) x 4-6

80-mm rocket pods (20 each) x 2

250-kg bombs x 4

500-kg bombs x 2

12.7-mm MG pod x 2

Twin 23-mm gun pods x 2

Additional fuel tanks (liters) x 1,830

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by General Pain

Are there any specific limits ?

Weight (kg):
Maximum Gross: 12,000
Normal Takeoff: 11,100
Empty: 6,990

[General Pain]

..a 20mm vulcan is out of the question...got a player asking for this...well...it's never out of the question, just very very dangerous and risky...

[Grimace]

I've seen a variety of listed loads for this thing. Basically, it's the Russian version of the UH-1 in that they've used it for just about everything.

The combat versions I've seen can have:

4000 kg slung on 6 hardpoints -
to include --
80 S-8 unguided rockets (in 20-shot pods)
40 S-8 unguided rockets/2 GSh-23L gun pods w/250 rounds per weapon
8 guided missiles / 40 S-8 unguided rockets
8 guided missiles / 2 GSh-23L gun pods
4 heavy guided missiles / 40 S-8 unguided rockets
8 guided missiles / 4 heavy guided missiles


Most times they throw external fuel tanks on the inner most hardpoints in order to keep the range of the helicopter up after throwing all the extra weight on it. But in quick and dirty runs, they could put extra weaponry on the innermost hardpoints as well.

And considering the Soviets put the twin 23mm gun pod on it, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to slap a 20mm vulcan gun on one of the hardpoints. Might increase the weight when you add in the ammunition for it (as it's going to go through ammo really fast) but a good enough mechanic should be able to work it.

Oh yeah, and the combat versions of the Hip also mounted a 7.62mm PKT in the nose and one in the rear, as well as a mixture of door mounted weaponry IN ADDITION to the weapons slung on the hardpoints. So even if they couldn't figure out how to mount a vulcan cannon on the hardpoint, they could probably get their hands on a smaller version and mount it on the door swivel mount like was occasionally done with the UH-1 in Vietnam. Hope that helps.

[General Pain]

insightful
much appreciated.

[pmulcahy11b]

I've heard of some Soviet/Russian helicopters being equipped to drop bombs. I would have to assume the bombs that a helicopter would drop would have to be retarded bombs (the kind where large fins pop out when dropped to induce a large amount of drag to enable the aircraft to get out of the blast zone). Those kinds of fins can usually be added to bombs as a kit.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've heard of some Soviet/Russian helicopters being equipped to drop bombs. I would have to assume the bombs that a helicopter would drop would have to be retarded bombs (the kind where large fins pop out when dropped to induce a large amount of drag to enable the aircraft to get out of the blast zone). Those kinds of fins can usually be added to bombs as a kit.

Not necessarily, the Mi-8 has a service ceiling of 4500m and the Mi-17 has a service ceiling of 5000-5700m (variant dependent). More than enough distance to drop a bomb and be outside of the blast radius. Especially combined with forward movement.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've heard of some Soviet/Russian helicopters being equipped to drop bombs. I would have to assume the bombs that a helicopter would drop would have to be retarded bombs (the kind where large fins pop out when dropped to induce a large amount of drag to enable the aircraft to get out of the blast zone). Those kinds of fins can usually be added to bombs as a kit.

They also have parachute retarded bombs. The FAB-250 GP bomb (250kg/551lb) and the PLAB-500 napalm (1,102lb) bomb are the only bombs on display for the Mi-8/17 in my Modern Fighting Helicopters (Bill Gunston & Mike Spick, Salamader Books, 1986). Never imagined a heli dropping napalm before.

[Fusilier]

Semi related question...

MI-24

The crew - there is a pilot and gunner? Or does the pilot fire the armaments and other guy just a copilot?

Anyways, I guess my question for this situation is as follows...

The Hind is making a strafing run, it fires a salvo of S-8 rockets at an APC. A short distance away from the APC is a dismounted squad. I had the gunner then bring the nose gun onto the infantry and fire.

Can this be done in the same attack run? Can the gunner target one and the pilot target the other? Or can the gunner do both?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Never imagined a heli dropping napalm before.

I can't imagine that a helicopter could develop enough speed to make a napalm attack effective.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I can't imagine that a helicopter could develop enough speed to make a napalm attack effective.

I didn't make it up.

[jester]

A Helicopter would be an awesome bombing platform due to its stability. Same with a blimb, it could loiter and drop its load with much better accruacy.


As for napalm, AWESOME!!!!!

You don't get the intended spread for sure, but no longer need the larger area caused by flow mechanics either. Again the hoiver apsect of a helo allows for greater accruacy, and with enough airspeed you can still get it to flow.

Paul, remember the delivery devices of Napalm in WWII and Korea were Corsairs and similiar aircraft, their speeds were slightly faster unless you are in a straight dive than a UH-1, so I would say give it a go!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I didn't make it up.

I wasn't questioning whether they did it; I was just questioning the effectiveness of the spread.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I've been lead to understand that the Russians didn't want the napalm to spread when they used it in Afghanistan. They wanted to concentrate it on a specific area to consume the oxygen and thus suffocate the mujahideen hiding in crevasses, caves or wells and so on.

On a related note, I recall some book stating that the Mi-8/Mi-17 series was the most heavily armed attack helicopter in the world because it could carry 3000-4000kg of ordnance.
As an aside, it's a pity the Mi-18 didn't go into production but that was good news for the West. Compared to the Mi-17, it had a 0.9m fuselage extension, retractable undercarriage, 20km higher speed, 500m higher service ceiling and an approximately 110km increase in maximum range.

As for the Mi-24, it is definitely pilot and gunner. The pilot can fire the weapons also but for the nose turret, he can only fire it when it is facing forward. Generally he flies and detects targets while the weapon operator does all the firing etc. I think in the example given it is possible to have the pilot loose a salvo of rockets while the weapon operator searches for other targets with the nose gun (but that only works for earlier models, the later models like the Mi-24E have two forward facing 23mm cannon on the right side of the fuselage rather than a nose turret)