104th ID Location

[kota1342000]

I think I might have a couple suggestions here, I drive this area quite often.
First, everyone is right about canon, Warren AFB is pretty much the edge of Cheyenne, and its missile fields extend to the east and south as far as Ive been able to guess (and thats good enough for a game as far as Im concerned). That 1mt would probably have been spread out across several warheads all set to ground burst as the primary targets would be the minuteman silos, and surface equipment such as support and communications would get residual blast damage. Either way, Cheyenne would be completely destroyed. There just isnt the topography there to protect any of the city from multiple blasts.
Therefore, I would suggest moving the 104th's location to Laramie Wyoming if you wanted to keep it in the general area. It would work as a secondary transportation hub with Cheyenne gone, and it suggests itself for several other reasons. First is that Laramie would have taken quite a bit less damage being behind the Medicine Bow range of mountains that separate the two cities. Also Laramie has the junction of I80 and US287 to recommend it as well as a large railyard.
Ideas about operations in Idaho and Montana are easy to justify, hard to perform. If we use Laramie as the starting point, there are several small oilfields around the I80 area starting from Laramie, and going west to Rawlins, Rock Springs, Green River, and Evanston. There is even a refinery complex just east of Rawlins built around the town of Sinclair (guess how the town got its name).
From the I80 stretch which spans the southern length of Wyoming, its possible to jump onto US30 in between Green River and Evanston and it will take you into Idaho suprisingly fast if youre not familiar with the area. Once in Idaho there is a lot of national forest (the Caribou and Cache NFs) and quite a lot of ranching and small farming as Ive been able to see. Continuing on US30 will get you to I15 and eventually the next city of any size which would be Pocatello.
Getting to Montana from this I80 stretch can be done easiest from either Rawlins or Rock Springs using a variety of secondary roads and US highways that take you through a lot of National Forest, private land, and plenty of small towns along the way. The routes I usually wind up taking meet up at US310 at the Wyoming/Montana border to the west of Billings Montana. Billings has several oil refineries there as well.
As probably all of you reading this has figured out by now, the biggest problem is transportation. Its roughly 450 miles from Laramie to Billings and over 500 from Laramie to Pocatello. Fuel wont be the only problem either. I know from some hair raising personal experience that Wyoming DOT works their butts off trying to keep roads open in the winter and sometimes their HUGE efforts arent enough (much like my home state of Colorado). Conditions after 1998 in game time would be ruinous for road transport I would think.
However this discussion does get the brain moving as to how things could work. There is an extensive rail network in the area though I dont have maps of it. Coal mining is pretty prevalent in Wyoming as I understand are other types of mining in Idaho and Montana. There is quite a bit of oil still being taken out of the area, and as a result of all of this industry, its not suprising to find some pretty extensive machine shops in some small towns quite a way off the beaten path.
Raellus is correct when he says it doesnt look like theres much out there...what we cant see from the highways are the farms and ranches, ranches being more predominant in Wyoming and SW Idaho, and farming being the rule west of Pocatello and onto the I84 corridor leading to Twin Falls, Mountain Home, and Boise. Thats a lot of food that could be put to good use (or not). The I84 stretch between I15 and Boise is mostly rolling hills and some flat areas which suggest itself to mechanized warfare, but also have huge obstacles in the form of canyons, gullies, and of course the Snake River. One blown bridge would wreck an advance until engineers were able to figure something out. Even on foot it wouldnt be easy getting to Mountain Home or Boise. And I dont even want to think about trying to get to Lewiston in the face of a determined defense with the winding river canyons, mountains, and even the town of Lewiston is bisected by the Clearwater river with high ground on either side. Seems like great places for the 104th to be...but coordination would be a nightmare and having two seperate main forces like that rings my "splitting the force" alarm bells.
I think Jester has a great idea with the seperate detachments idea too, it almost brings a "Magnificent Seven" kind of scenario to mind.

Anyway, thats a few cents worth from someone who should be sleeping about now but starved for T2k gaming LOL

[shrike6]

I used to live in Western Nebraska about 10-15 years ago. I can pretty much confirm what Kota is saying about the Cheyenne area. Although that missile field streches out alot farther than you think because I used to drive past one silo when I was headed south on Nebraska 71 to catch I-80 to go Cheyenne. By looking at this map I see there were a few I didn't notice.



source:http://nukewatch.com/weapons/index.html
So I'm not so sure, that they could catch all the silos with nukes if they wanted to. My guess is they were nuking Warren to disrupt the the command, control and support for those silos. I'm curious has anybody tried to figure out what the blast radius is from that nuke going off? I mean would it totally destroy Cheyenne or would there still be some buildings standing?

[Webstral]

Kota, that’s great stuff from someone who has had eyes on the ground. Thanks for taking the time to share.

I’m at the point where I’m going to abandon the idea of putting 104th ID in Wyoming at all. The unit history says the division was assigned security missions in Montana and Idaho. Cheyenne is a cinder. While I see logic in having a security force at Laramie, a contingent from Colorado might be a better choice for this job than a force from 104th ID.

The challenges of distance in Wyoming certainly must be taken into account. It seems like security would be an enormous challenge. Marauders on horseback would be able to take advantage of the distances between communities and resources by striking, then melting back into the landscape. On the other hand, the distances can work against marauders, too. I suppose a good deal depends on who the marauders are. Raiders with horses, good horse-keeping skills, and good survival skills might be able to survive in the great stretches of unsettled land of Wyoming in between raids. Raiders lacking in these skills might be less capable, although a group modeled after the vermin on wheels of The Road Warrior would add an interesting dynamic. (Seriously, are these guys iconic, or what?) If raiders on motorcycles and dune buggies were shrewd enough to hide their movements and elude larger Milgov patrols, they might have a chance.

Wyoming might look a lot like New England by early 2001 in that fortified communities exist in a sea of land dominated by marauders. Howling Wilderness alludes to this idea, and Kota supports the idea with observations about towns with machine tools and extensive extraction operations. Provided the operations can be kept supplied with food, they can make important contributions to the recovery of the nation. One could really have fun with a sourcebook devoted to Wyoming.

One thing that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me is the ongoing attrition of 104th ID between July of 2000 and April of 2001. Supposedly, the food situation in Montana has stabilized. Idaho is an important agricultural player on the national stage, having strong exports of potatoes and wheat. While the lack of fossil fuels will mean the end of (or drastic reduction in) mechanized agriculture, surely some of the local populace who will just be sitting around waiting for their rations can be assigned jobs on the farms. At any rate, stable supplies of food must mean that young men can be recruited locally for military service. Are we to believe that between 2000 and 2001 the loss rate for 104th ID has surpassed recruitment by 2000 men in an area where food supplies are adequate? It seems odd to me. I may have to modify the headcount given in Howling Wilderness.

Looking ahead to Milgov’s plans sans the Howling Wilderness drought, what if the first stage of the big plan is to restore a secure land route between Colorado and the Pacific along rail and river routes through Wyoming, Idaho, and Washington? With this route in hand, surpluses could be shared between the major Milgov enclaves in Colorado, Puget Sound, and central California. (One corollary is that the Pacific coastline would have to be sufficiently secure to allow traffic.) A secure land route linking these places would obviate the need for airships, which would free whatever airships were available for contact with more isolated Milgov cantonments, like the ones in southern Illinois, New Jersey, etc. This being the case, reduction of the New American presence in Boise would be absolutely critical. Defeat of the Boise New Americans and restoration of the riverine supply route would be a major morale boost for Milgov and also would serve to demonstrate to the folks in Utah that Milgov was getting things in hand.

Hm. It appears that the 104th's upcoming action in Idaho is critical. The actions of PCs in Boise could have a huge impact on the future of the society. The challenge in designing a GDW-style module around this idea is to give the PCs a thing to acquire that will be meaningful. In almost every other module (we'll ignore City of Angels for now...shudder), the PCs are after something tangible, like a painting, gold, specific people, and so on. How to figure out what that should be in southern Idaho? How can that thing play into the bigger picture of 104th ID's offensive?

Webstral

[simonmark6]

What about a blight resistant, true breeding strain of potato? It fits in with the agriculture of the state and would be a handy crop. If it was a fast grower that could be put in after first frost and grow to a decent size in time to harvest it and get the summer crop in it could be worth more than all the MacGuffins in the modules.

Of course, if I've gotten it wrong about Idaho being known as the "Potato State" then none of my post makes sense....

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

What about a blight resistant, true breeding strain of potato? It fits in with the agriculture of the state and would be a handy crop. If it was a fast grower that could be put in after first frost and grow to a decent size in time to harvest it and get the summer crop in it could be worth more than all the MacGuffins in the modules.

Of course, if I've gotten it wrong about Idaho being known as the "Potato State" then none of my post makes sense....

I like this idea. I'll have to toy with it to figure out how it can be made to fit with an SO-type operation.

Does anybody know what parts of a hydroelectric facility would be damaged by EMP?

Webstral

[HorseSoldier]

Wyoming might look a lot like New England by early 2001 in that fortified communities exist in a sea of land dominated by marauders. Howling Wilderness alludes to this idea, and Kota supports the idea with observations about towns with machine tools and extensive extraction operations. Provided the operations can be kept supplied with food, they can make important contributions to the recovery of the nation. One could really have fun with a sourcebook devoted to Wyoming.

Complicating things is the fact that it's not the best agricultural area on the planet, but great grazing country, in much of the state. In the eastern part of the state it may be confused with heavily armed marauders, mostly on horseback, mingled in with people who've cut loose from settlements to follow their cattle and other animals -- also on horseback, also armed to the teeth, and probably also prone to a bit of opprotunistic robbery if it means the difference between surviving the winter or not. Of course, circa 2000, everyone is still making things up as they go along, for the most part, and so everything's probably a fluid mess.

Further west where the mountains provide better water, fortified towns or valleys would make a lot of sense. There's some sort of petroleum in the area, if I recall correctly (natural gas?), which could further add wrinkles to a complicated situation.

Does anybody know what parts of a hydroelectric facility would be damaged by EMP?

I think just the computerized controls and such. Wouldn't do anything to the turbines in and of itself, but damage might occur from the controls going off line abruptly. The Howling Wilderness section on the SE USA, talking about MilGov trying to get the Tennessee Valley Authority back up and running talks a little about how GDW saw that issue developing -- human abandonment and neglect over a couple years was a bigger issue than the nukes themselves for the various damns in the TVA area.

[Webstral]

Okay, having read through the Howling Wilderness bit on hydroelectric plants, I think I might have something workable, albeit rather similar to Airlords of the Ozarks. Salvaging the TVA facilities requires a workforce Milgov doesn't have. Perhaps the less-chaotic situation in Idaho led to a much better survivability rate for the engineers associated with Idaho's hydroelectrcity industry. Perhaps, however, the cream of the crop are now in concentration camps in Boise. Many of the engineers needed for the job were minorities, Mormons, or outspoken people who pissed off the Aryans in charge of the New American cell in Boise. Maybe New America went so far as to identify these people ahead of time, and they are now being held following their arrest by New American forces. Those of suitable ethnicity are being subjected to co-option efforts. Those not of suitable ethnicity soon are to be exterminated. The PCs must liberate these people prior to the upcoming 104th ID offensive. Success could mean not only restoring some hydroelectric power to Idaho, but also the potential training of a new workforce to be transported to other parts of the country for the purpose of restoring hydroelectric power.

Webstral

P.S. I wonder if the Shogun's raid can be worked into this one somehow. If he liberated a thousand concentration camp victims, were any of the needed people among them? Might a follow-on mission involve a trip to Nevada?