1st US Army / XII Corps

[kota1342000]

[QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]Is that unit in addition to the 27th Lt Inf Bde out of New York that was 10th Mountain's Round Out brigade (and which GDW has going somewhere else, I forget where)?[QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]

The 10th went to Norway and later was deployed by air to Fort Greeley AK to help form X Corps. But no Horse, not in addition to; I just use the 27th as a seperate Brigade.

[Legbreaker]

I've no problem in what you do with you game, I was just interested in the reasons behind it.
Salvaged tanks from a sunken transport? Not a problem (unless you though such things as corrosion and water damage into the mix )

Note the Germans were not after compensation for the US withdrawal - it was a straight trade. The US was to hand over all heavy equipment in return for the fuel they need to get home.

Everyone's happy with the result. Less mouths to feed in Europe, less soldiers to equip with limited resources, and greater capabilities for those units left on the line. Even with the reduction in overall troop numbers, I'd think the front would remain just as secure - still just as many tanks, APCs and artillery peices ready to pound any enemy offensive action.

I agree that "simple" doesn't really describe the situation away from the front lines in continental US, however the opposition the Government forces face are unlikely to have tanks and other armour necessitating the retention of tanks away from the formal warzones. It doesn't seem logical for heavy equipment to be kept in the eastern states when there's a full blown war in the south and north west in which the US forces are underresourced and being pushed back. Your explaination of a salvaged ship though does explain why there may be armour in the east.

[stilleto69]

I agree with you Kota. In my game I had JCS General Cummings & SACEUR General Lewis make a deal with the German Military Government that would remain controversial after the war. The deal was that the Americans would be allow to retain their heavy equipment in exchange for several "captured/transferred" SS-20s (4) & 2 Pershing IAs. Thus allowing the Germans to retain a viable "deterrence" against French incursions & any possible Soviet/Warsaw Pact counteroffensives.

P.S. Before any canon "nazis" go crazy, in my game not every tactical nuclear weapon (i.e. Pershing IA/II or SS-20) was used. Some are still intact in fact there are several GLCMs still in the UK (Shhh... just don't tell HMG )

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by stilleto69

Some are still intact in fact there are several GLCMs still in the UK (Shhh... just don't tell HMG )

I used more or less the same scenario in my UK work, with a handful of GLCM's and their crews based in the South of England...they had no fixed location (for security they move around quite a bit). The only difference was that HMG know about it and have assisted the Americans by providing a small number of British troops to act as a security detachment.

With regard to the presence of heavy armour in the north east of the US (or anywhere else for that matter), I tend to think that a lot would depend on exactly when said armour was "recovered" (e.g. if it was on a ship, when the ship was salvaged, etc). Personally I would agree that anything found up until a certain period of time - I'd say the end of 1998 / start of 1999 - would probably be transferred to either the Texan or Alaskan fronts, but I think that as you move into 1999 the capabilty to move armour across the country would pretty much cease to exist and anything recovered in the north east would stay in the north east.

[kota1342000]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I've no problem in what you do with you game, I was just interested in the reasons behind it.
Salvaged tanks from a sunken transport? Not a problem (unless you though such things as corrosion and water damage into the mix )

Note the Germans were not after compensation for the US withdrawal - it was a straight trade. The US was to hand over all heavy equipment in return for the fuel they need to get home.

Everyone's happy with the result. Less mouths to feed in Europe, less soldiers to equip with limited resources, and greater capabilities for those units left on the line. Even with the reduction in overall troop numbers, I'd think the front would remain just as secure - still just as many tanks, APCs and artillery peices ready to pound any enemy offensive action.

I agree that "simple" doesn't really describe the situation away from the front lines in continental US, however the opposition the Government forces face are unlikely to have tanks and other armour necessitating the retention of tanks away from the formal warzones. It doesn't seem logical for heavy equipment to be kept in the eastern states when there's a full blown war in the south and north west in which the US forces are underresourced and being pushed back. Your explaination of a salvaged ship though does explain why there may be armour in the east.

Sorry about quoting the whole thing here; still learning the ropes with posting LOL

Oh corrosion was a very big deal with recovered equipment, and that worked out ok as a source of "busy work" for everyone.

The fuel from the FRG was the piece I forgot; knew I was forgetting something.
With my game and the way I see it, that's the weakest part of any trade. CENTCOM is pumping out fuel for military and recovery purposes, and I cant see who in the chain of command wouldn't think that moving EUCOM wouldn't be high priority.

As for the situation in the north for Alaska and the southwest, I have additional OOBs to help plug the gaps, but I also moved 7th US Army (NOTRHAG from USAEUR) to Colorado and 4th US Army to California. I haven't finished the full OOB for 9th US Army (Alaska), but heres for the southwest area, and again this is in addition to already established OOB for the area;

5th US Army

220th Military Police BDE, 250 Men
the 220th was responsible for security of the west coast embarkation points unitl the November massacre sparked large scale riots and civil unrest in the mid-west. The 220th repeatedly put down large riots in the major cities of Cheyanne, Denver, Detroit, Chicago, Albuquerque, and Dallas. The unit fought poorly during the Mexican/Soviet invasion, and currently resides near Salina KS. They are one of the least respected units; to the point that they had to become a 5th Army asset because the 90th, 110th, and 122nd Corps refused to have them under their commands.

420th Engineer BDE, 400 Men
the 420th was a national guard brigade detailed to operate with Southern Command in Panama until the Mexican/Soviet invasion occurred. They were airlifted to South Texas and performed a defense in depth using defensive minefields, and demolishing bridges across the front. They took appauling casualties, and was withdrawn to refit. They remain a 5th Army asset, and frequently operates with all Corps in the 5th US Army.

110th corps

256th Infantry Brigade (Mech) Camp Gruber OK, 500 troops, 10 stingray II
the 256th was raised from friendly civilian militia and veteran troops coming out of the hospital. Upon forming, the 256th moved forward and attacked both the Saltillo and Tampico regiments of the Mexican Army, destroying their ability to mount offensive action against the 110th corps, and helping to take pressure off of the 90th and 122nd Corps. They have remained on the front since, working out of Camp Gruber.

57th Field Artillery Brigade, Ft Riley KS, 400 troops, 22 M114A1
the 57th is a National Guard brigade that fought with distinction in Europe, but like the 631st, fell victim to a tactical nuclear strike, and was nearly destroyed. Many survivors deserted before the brigade could be moved back to the US for refit.
On arrival, the 57th was given older 155mm howitzers, and placed in Ft. Riley as a reserve group. They and the 20th Engineers were the first two units of the 110th Corps.

20th Combat Engineer Brigade (Abn), Liberal KS, 650 troops
The 20th is a curious amalmagation of combat engineer troops from recovered wounded from the 82nd Airborne, 6th Air Cav Cmbt Brigade, 173rd Airborne Brigade, and even some engineers from the Special Forces of various groups. With rejoining their units unlikely in the face of danger coming across the border to the south, they requested and granted permission to form their own brigade, which was activated in late 1998. They functioned as both conventional engineers and as sappers in combat, and worked closely with the 57th FA until the formation of 110th Corps.

29th Infantry Division (Mech), Ft Sill Ok, 2600 troops, 10 Stingray II, 6 M-60-2000
the 29th was activated by popular demand as the volunteers coming out of the occupied territories and from behind the friendly lines swelled. They were armed up with a recently acquired stock of arms, equipment and vehicles that had just been recaptured from the Mexican Army. They went fully active not long after the victory of the 256th, and moved forward in their wake, retaking Ft Sill and keeping the pressure on the Mexicans. They also faced off with forward elements of Division Cuba of the Soviet Army, and crushed the forward battalion in a surprise night action.

479th Field Artillery BDE, 450 Men, 10 M119A1
the 479th was recently reformed and given the colors of the 479th who had been vaporized by a tactical nuclear weapon in Europe. They are the most recent addition to the 110th Corps and have made a good account of themselves, to the point that they have been ordered several times to withdraw as they were close enough to the Tampico Regiment as to bring their howitzers into the direct fire role.

90th US Corps

103rd Field Artillery BDE, 600 Men, 11 M198
the 103rd had been directed to deploy to Europe, then cancelled and ordered to Iran, cancelled, orders cut for Korea, cancelled, had members pulled from the units as replacements, and when orders came up for Alaska, the Brigade CO blew up and asked if FORCECOM was actually sure this time. The next day, the Mexican/Soviet Invasion occurred, and was in the right place at the right time in Ft Hood to begin the first of the organized defense. They performed a defense in depth, using their howitzers sometimes in the direct fire with terrifying effect. The 103rd was assigned to 90th Corps along with the 49th Armored and 95th Infantry Divisions.

[Dog 6]

thanks Kota !

[HorseSoldier]

[QUOTE=kota1342000;25415][QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]Is that unit in addition to the 27th Lt Inf Bde out of New York that was 10th Mountain's Round Out brigade (and which GDW has going somewhere else, I forget where)?

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

The 10th went to Norway and later was deployed by air to Fort Greeley AK to help form X Corps. But no Horse, not in addition to; I just use the 27th as a seperate Brigade.

Sorry, that sentence probably wanted to cohesiveness. What I meant is that in real life, 27th LIB was the round out brigade for 10th Mountain Division during the Cold War era. GDW has them being part of the 42nd Division instead, and I guess assumed that 10th Mtn was a full three brigade active duty division.

[Abbott Shaull]

One thing that justify it would be that the M60s and M48s were awaiting transportation overseas and never it over the pond. Much likely you would find these vehicle along East, West, and Gulf Coast with many of them in the west having been sent to California to reinforce units there....

[HorseSoldier]

Any at Gulf Coast ports not irradiated too badly would be a pretty easy haul to Texas via rail, and would have probably been sent to bolster 49th AD and other units there.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah I know...The west coast would of went to the 40th and the gulf coast to the 49th. East Coast would of been up for grabs...

[Rainbow Six]

I guess you could make a case for any recovered armour on the south east coast ending up at Fort Benning with the CivGov units based there (or maybe Fort Bragg)? Still think anything found on the north east coast from spring 1999 onwards would have stayed in the north east though.

Just out of interest, in a V1 timeline was there anywhere in CONUS the US Army would have sent any armour that had been damaged in Europe or elsewhere but could be shipped back to be repaired?

[HorseSoldier]

In the post-nuclear chaos and displacement, I'd think that just about anybody who could grab control of port facilities or interdict rail lines might end up in possession of some armor. This could include MilGov or CivGov units who diverted stuff headed for the front because they felt they needed them more, New America enclaves, local warlords or communities, or even Mexican/Division Cuba forces who overran ports in southern California and Texas. I doubt there was all that much stuff laying around to begin with after almost a year of high intensity conflict in multiple theaters, but it could turn up most anywhere in most anyone's hands by 2000. (Access to a good deal of military kit might help explain why the Warlord of Memphis seems to have been such a pain in the ass for MilGov, for instance.)

As far as armor repair/refurbishing, Anniston Army Depot in Alabama does rebuilds on M1s and assorted other AFVs in real life. I don't know if they were the only facility set up to do that work in the Cold War era. I'd think doing even extensive repair work in theater would make better logistical sense than shipping damaged tanks back CONUS and then back over to Europe or where ever in a WW3 scenario where sealift and airlift have to have been badly stressed.