Co B, 116th ACR

[dragoon500ly]

Couple of ways of looking at this.

If you want to keep B Troop as still loyal, then the Colonel would have every right to assume command. Unless Captain Winters wants to maintain the fiction of "previous, overriding orders", for which she would have to produce the written copy confirming the orders.

"Sorry Colonel, but I do have direct orders from CINCEUR to support the 10th Special Forces Group for a classified, need-to-know mission. I'm afraid that I cannot detach any personnel to escort you back to our front lines, but I can provide supplies and a guide to assist you. Here are my orders signed by Lieutenant General Dumbjohn." Game, set and match.

Another way is if the Colonel shows, by his actions (or inactions) that he is unable, or unfit to exercise command. This on is a very hard one to prove, but say the Colonel is badly wounded, to the point of requiring major pain-killers, he would then be unfit to command on medical grounds. Just an idea.

To prevent him from taking over, these would be about the only means to do so.

And a hint from an ole cavalry trooper, The First Squadron of the 116th ACR would be comprised of Headquarters Troop, Troops A, B and C and Company D (tanks).

[helbent4]

Chris,

Also, you could bump up the Captain's rank to Colonel as well. If the players have never played Black Madonna, they won't know the difference, will they?

If you want to go that route then Coy B/116th ACR could be the last surviving unit of the regiment, or Warren could have been attached to the unit for the purpose of their mission sometime before the debacle at Kalisz.

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

It could be used as an interesting game hook -- does Troop B stay loyal to Captain Warren (who has gotten them through this much and suffered terribly personally as well), or do they take their orders from this person, who may be a Colonel, but they don't know?

[Raellus]

You could use a MILGOV/CIVGOV loyalty split. Then there's the whole "You might have the rank but so-and-so is this unit's operational commander so thanks but no thanks." T2K canon suggests that rank structure as of 2000 has become somewhat... flexible.

Does the Colonel still have his eagles and military I.D.? Perhaps he can't prove his rank to the new unit's satisfaction- a convenient fait accompli.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Does the Colonel still have his eagles and military I.D.? Perhaps he can't prove his rank to the new unit's satisfaction- a convenient fait accompli.

That's a good point, in a T2K game I GMed while I was in Korea, one of the players "promoted" himself from Sergeant to Major by taking the insignia from a dead soldier. (It was just before he met, in the game, the rest of the existing player group. The players were none the wiser, and I kept the secret for game play.)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

"Sorry Colonel, but I do have direct orders from CINCEUR to support the 10th Special Forces Group for a classified, need-to-know mission.

Note that B Coy, 116th ACR had no connection whatsoever with the SFG tasked with recovering Reset. B Coy mission which was never actually relayed to them (their contact never showed up), was the retrieval of something else rather important to the stabilisation (or destabilisation depending on who's hands it was in) of the region.

What Corps is the Colonel? While they may have the rank, do they have the training to command an armoured unit?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Note that B Coy, 116th ACR had no connection whatsoever with the SFG tasked with recovering Reset. B Coy mission which was never actually relayed to them (their contact never showed up), was the retrieval of something else rather important to the stabilisation (or destabilisation depending on who's hands it was in) of the region.

What Corps is the Colonel? While they may have the rank, do they have the training to command an armoured unit?

Have a copy of Black Madonna so I do know the canon background, however, does the Colonel know this?

As for the corps that the Colonel belongs to; the Green Machine posts officers just about everywhere, regardless of their original training. I have seen armor officers, straight from Judge Advocate, take over tank companies. And they don't necessarily have to complete Armor Officer's Basic.

There was actually a course called the Tank Commanders Certification Course run out of Ft. Knox, Kentucky where these people went through a two week course that turned them into instant armor experts. Now, while all US Army officers are shades of George S. Patton just waiting to jump in the ole turret and kill commies by the hundreds...two weeks does not turn an officer into a tanker. Just provides enough info to insure that they can kill their crews and most likely their units in the shortest period of time.

So having a strange officer arrive to take over a combat unit, especially one trapped behind enemy lines, I'd lay good odds that the troop officers and NCOs are trying to figure out every possible way to keep this guy from taking over. I'd also bet that a few of the troopers may be discussing having an accident involving the colonel and a hand grenade or two.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

So having a strange officer arrive to take over a combat unit, especially one trapped behind enemy lines, I'd lay good odds that the troop officers and NCOs are trying to figure out every possible way to keep this guy from taking over. I'd also bet that a few of the troopers may be discussing having an accident involving the colonel and a hand grenade or two.

"Sorry, sir, but Captain Warren's our commander. You're just some guy who showed up out of nowhere." Smacks of extreme disrespect, but a big possibility under the circumstances.

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps one approach would be to allow the Colonel to take over in a figurehead type position - they think they're in charge, but the Captain still holds the reins.

If the Colonel wants the unit to move to another location, and the Captain disagrees, I'm sure she can find dozens of "problems" preventing such an action - lack of adequate fuel, broken down vehicles, sick/injured crewmen vital to the smooth operation of combat vehicles, etc, etc...
The less the Colonel actually knows about armoured operations the better this would work.

If they do happen to have armoured knowledge and/or experience, then falling back on the written orders idea is definitely the way to go. If the orders contain problematic info, such as deadlines, expiry dates, etc, then Opsec could be called into play - does the Colonel have the necessary clearance to even view the orders?

[Chris]

Thanks for the very quick replies.

I won't know till they get there what the Colonel's intentions or condition will be. I had thought about a heavily wounded Colonel being declared not fit to command and even after he is "better" having the unit's medical officer declaring the same. "TBI, he acts normal until stressed."

Given the strong desire of B Coy to stay put I could really see a "Siege of Firebase Gloria" moment if he got pushy.

The Colonel is US Army Rangers (T2K v2.2, sorta) and the minimum age for it. 10 INT and he hit every promotion roll (Duh!). Anyway, by 2000 he was wearing more than 1 hat. We hashed things out informally for the groups background, he was in charge of 1st Battalions 5th ID(M)'s recon assets, co-ordinating security for the few engineer assets, and, last winter, running training for scouts pulled from the replacements from the States and local population. I'm going to have to give him a write-up about the B Coy. He'd have had some contact with them before hand.

Thanks,
Chris

[Legbreaker]

I'd say only minimal contact though. As a Ranger it's unlikely he'd have had a lot to do with armour, even when he was running the recon elements of 5th ID. Chances are though he'd met Captain Warren at some point, even if it were just a social event in the officers mess - doubtful she'd be able to pass herself off as higher rank after that.
Contact would only be minimal though - the Colonel was 5th ID and the Captain 116th ACR, two totally separate units and command structures. If they'd not been operating in roughly the same area, then there's as much chance of knowing each other as an officer in the 2nd Marines, 50th AD or even the Canadians or Norwegians - close to Buckley's.

[Targan]

I love this thread. Allow me to relate a story from my last campaign as a way to illustrate what can happen when a higher ranking officer shows up and tries to take command of a unit.

The CO of the PCs' unit in my last campaign was Major Anthony Po, US Army Special Forces. At the start of the campaign he was a captain and was tagging along with the 5th Division's HQ element as a way to get himself deep into Poland without having to have his own bodyguard unit or sneak all the way in-country. He was on a DIA mission to kill 13 CIA agents inserted into the US military in Europe (he had originally been one of those CIA agents but had defected to the DIA after the nukes started flying because he blamed the US Government for getting the USA nuked). At the start of the campaign it was part of his back story that he had already assassinated 12 of them and the 13th was thought to be operating with pro-NATO partisans in south-central Poland, possibly with Marczac's Legion.

Between the Battle of Kalisz and arriving in Krakow Po was the 2nd in command of the rag-tag PC group, the commander being an Australian named Lynch who had become a US citizen and a US Army Major (he was actually a military intelligence type who had originally been involved in the development of high tech missile guidance systems). Unfortunately Lynch was a burn-out case, a hopeless alcoholic and drug user, and wasn't at all popular with the men and women he commanded. Lynch was killed when he took an AK round in the mouth while entering the tunnels beneath the Jasna Gora. Po took command and was later promoted to Major by Colonel Stark in Krakow.

When the PC party encountered B Troop, 116th ACR, Major Po immediately recognised the level of firepower gathered in Dobrodzien and decided he wanted to command it himself, but he was smart enough to recognise that the cavalrymen and women may be resistant to him taking command. He attempted to sweet talk them and build up friendly relations between himself and B Troop but soon realised that Captain Warren was resistant to the idea of going on the offensive against WP forces in the area. To try and get what he wanted, Major Po attempted to seduce Captain Warren but he critically failed his seduction roll and licked the scar on Warren's face that she had received during a rape by Russian soldiers earlier in the war. The relationship between Warren and Po never recovered from that rather catastrophic faux par.

After that Major Po lost patience with the diplomatic option and ordered B Troop to follow him into battle. An initial engagement against a straggler unit of Soviet light armor went very well but then Po (for reasons never very clear to me) decided to mount an assault against the forces garrisoning Krakow and when that battle didn't go according to plan B Troop mutinied. During a face-off between Major Po and his command element and Captain Warren and her senior commanders there was a brief shoot-out. One of Warren's men was killed and several of Po's men were wounded. Following an extremely tense stand-off Warren and Po agreed that their respective units would go their separate ways.

Months later in Bremerhaven Po discovered that B Troop had also made it back in time for the US evacuation back to the States. At the time the campaign ended (February 2001 in game time) Po was still trying to have Captain Warren court-martialled (with little succes).