Really bad weapons...

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by helbent4

Of course, this meant inflicting the Canadian-made Ross rifle on the players. A militarised version of a finely made and highly accurate sporting rifle, it did not work well in the mud and dirt of the trenches. For example, the straight-pull bolt was often worked only by kicking it.

Isn't that the rifle that reputedly killed some of its shooters when the bolts popped loose and hit them in the face?

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Isn't that the rifle that reputedly killed some of its shooters when the bolts popped loose and hit them in the face?

"The shortcomings of the rifle were made apparent during the Second Battle of Ypres in April 1915. The rifle showed poor tolerance of dirt when used in field conditions, particularly the screw threads operating the bolt lugs, jamming the weapon open or closed. Another part of the jamming problem came from the bolt's outer face hitting the bolt stop, then deforming the thread shape. The bolt could also be disassembled for routine cleaning and inadvertently reassembled in a manner that would fail to lock but still allow a round to be fired, leading to serious injury or death of the operator as the bolt flew back into his face. "Thankfully such incidents were minor." [Emphasis mine.] Another well-known deficiency was the tendency for the bayonet to fall off the rifle when the weapon was fired. Many Canadians of the First Contingent (now renamed the First Canadian Division) at Ypres retrieved Lee Enfields from British casualties to replace their Ross rifles. Lieutenant Chris Scriven of the Tenth Battalion commented that it sometimes took five men just to keep one rifle firing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle

Admiral,

"THERE WERE ONLY A FEW FLIPPER BABIES!" (- Brain Candy)

Apparently, they were made of sterner stuff back then, when getting hit in the freakin' face by an exploding bolt was considered a minor incident.

"Cheerio lad, you still got one eye left, that's why the Good Lord gave you two, eh?"

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

You know, somebody on this site metioned doing a Twilight: 1918. After the research I''ve done on the weapons of WWI...I'm actually kinda worried!

[dragoon500ly]

Time for an anti-tank weapon from hell!

The British Projector, Infantry, Anti-Tank or PIAT. This was a stopgap weapon first issued in 1942. It was delevoped by Lieutenant Colonel Blacker RA, the same Blacker who introduced the world to the Blacker Bombard in 1930. He seems to have this really sick desire to use the Spigot Mortar.

Anyhow! The British Army needed a simple, cheap, easy to maufacture weapon that didn't use a lot of critical material and a minimum amount of explosive force. The PIAT met all of these requirements. This is nothing more than a metal tube, holding an enormous spring, which was compressed by unlatching the shoulder pad and standing on it, and lifting the weapon so that the spring and spigot were withdrawn into the body and held in place by a simple seer mechanism. The body was then returned to the shoulder pad and the PIAT was now ready to fire. A bomb was placed in the guideways at the front and when the trigger was pressed, the spigot was released, entering the tail unit of the bomb and exploding the propelling cartridge inside. This blew the bomb off and at the same time returned the spigot back into the body, recocking it for the next round.

The maximum range of the bomb is about 100 yards. Maximum armor penetration is about 75mm.

Within its limitations, the PIAT was a startingly effective weapon, but it was never popular with the infantrymen who had to carry the 32 pound weapon. It is heavy, cumbersome to carry, awkward and strenuous to cock, and violent to fire, but it was respected as a weapon which did what it set out to do; stop a tank when used by a resolute man.

The most famous incident involving the PIAT took place in the Italian campaign when Fusilier Jefferson dashed into the open and fired it from the hip, stopping two Tiger tanks at close range. He was adwarded the Victoria Cross for this remarkable feat, and the general opinion in the ranks was that he deserved the medal for firing the PIAT from the hip, let alone killing two tanks with the thing!

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

The most famous incident involving the PIAT took place in the Italian campaign when Fusilier Jefferson dashed into the open and fired it from the hip, stopping two Tiger tanks at close range. He was adwarded the Victoria Cross for this remarkable feat, and the general opinion in the ranks was that he deserved the medal for firing the PIAT from the hip, let alone killing two tanks with the thing!

Lee,

Probably a little more famous (at least around here) was a local boy, Ernest "Smokey" Smith, a Seaforth Highlander. He earned a Victoria Cross in Italy by (among other things) using a PIAT to take out two Mk V Panther tanks (one by firing from the hip) plus a Stug III, then hold off up to a company of SS simgle-handedly with a Thompson. While dragging wounded comrades to safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Smith

Tony

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by helbent4

Lee,

Probably a little more famous (at least around here) was a local boy, Ernest "Smokey" Smith, a Seaforth Highlander. He earned a Victoria Cross in Italy by (among other things) using a PIAT to take out two Mk V Panther tanks (one by firing from the hip) plus a Stug III, then hold off up to a company of SS simgle-handedly with a Thompson. While dragging wounded comrades to safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Smith

Tony

Ha, I met that guy when I was in the Army, shortly before he died.

There was this awkward pause when were talking, and I didn't really know what to say next, so I filled it with "So...uhh... so like where did you get shot? In the back?"

"No! I didn't get shot in the back. I wasn't fucking running away."

-- getting scolded by this angry old man made my day. It was kinda funny, but I'm glad I got to meet him, mostly.

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Ha, I met that guy when I was in the Army, shortly before he died.

There was this awkward pause when were talking, and I didn't really know what to say next, so I filled it with "So...uhh... so like where did you get shot? In the back?"

"No! I didn't get shot in the back. I wasn't fucking running away."

-- getting scolded by this angry old man made my day. It was kinda funny, but I'm glad I got to meet him, mostly.

Sounds like a fantastic man to have met!

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Ha, I met that guy when I was in the Army, shortly before he died.

There was this awkward pause when were talking, and I didn't really know what to say next, so I filled it with "So...uhh... so like where did you get shot? In the back?"

"No! I didn't get shot in the back. I wasn't fucking running away."

-- getting scolded by this angry old man made my day. It was kinda funny, but I'm glad I got to meet him, mostly.

Fuse,

I know some people (guys and gals) that are (or were) in the Seaforths, and they say he was indeed a heck of a guy!

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by helbent4

Lee,

Probably a little more famous (at least around here) was a local boy, Ernest "Smokey" Smith, a Seaforth Highlander. He earned a Victoria Cross in Italy by (among other things) using a PIAT to take out two Mk V Panther tanks (one by firing from the hip) plus a Stug III, then hold off up to a company of SS simgle-handedly with a Thompson. While dragging wounded comrades to safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Smith

Tony

I'm always amazed and proud to read the stories of the men who have earned the Medal of Honor/Victoria Cross. They truely are the best that their country has...

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

You know, somebody on this site metioned doing a Twilight: 1918. After the research I''ve done on the weapons of WWI...I'm actually kinda worried!

That would be me. I should use some of this to encourage players to put skill points into bayonet training, huh? Those don't jam.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

That would be me. I should use some of this to encourage players to put skill points into bayonet training, huh? Those don't jam.

Until the bayonet falls off or bends...I'll stick to a trench club, a few Mills Bombs and my trusty Webley .455 revolver!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Until the bayonet falls off or bends...I'll stick to a trench club, a few Mills Bombs and my trusty Webley .455 revolver!

I can't remember the movie, but the person goes to stab the bayonet target, and ends up throwing his rifle a good 15 feet beyond the target.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I can't remember the movie, but the person goes to stab the bayonet target, and ends up throwing his rifle a good 15 feet beyond the target.

Don't know the movie, but Monty Python did do a skit about Trench Warfare...

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I can't remember the movie, but the person goes to stab the bayonet target, and ends up throwing his rifle a good 15 feet beyond the target.

My ROTC instructor told me he saw that happen at least once at summer camp.

Fun fact of the day, the Russian word for bayonet is: Shtik.

[Ironside]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I can't remember the movie, but the person goes to stab the bayonet target, and ends up throwing his rifle a good 15 feet beyond the target.

Carry On Sgt?

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Until the bayonet falls off or bends...I'll stick to a trench club, a few Mills Bombs and my trusty Webley .455 revolver!

In the movie All's Quiet on the Western Front, didn't the crusty NCP advise against using a bayonet as well because it got stuck in the stickee? I believe the sharpened e-tool was the weapon of choice. In the movie Passchendale, a Canadian soldier beats a German to death with a rock. Ah, the classics are always popular from stone-age times!

Tony

[atiff]

I think I remember reading something about advice for getting a stuck bayonet out of the target. It was just to fire a round off, to make the hole bigger, if I remember right...

Of course, it might have been in some silly movie, or be an urban myth.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

That would be me. I should use some of this to encourage players to put skill points into bayonet training, huh? Those don't jam.

"They don't like it up 'em!"--Lance Corporal Jack Jones ("Dad's Army")

[dragoon500ly]

Here's another bad weapon. The M-4 Sherman medium tank. Now before the flaming starts, please consider the following:When the Sherman saw its first combat action at El Alamein, it was a match for the German MkIV in all respects except for firepower. But even the US Army admits that the Sherman was obscelent by 1943-44. When Shermans met Tigers and Panthers in the Italian and Normandy campaigns, the results were shattering of Allied forces. Our primary tank was undergunned, underarmored, and actually had worse cross-country mobility then the Germans. Only two things saved Allied armor; the fact that more Shermans were in the supply pipeline and that, compared to the German tanks, the Sherman was more reliable.

Now this is due more towards the idiotic doctrine that tanks will not fight tanks, this is the job of the tank destroyers. The tank destroyers get better guns, and improved ammunition while Army Ground Forces believed that the short barreled 75mm was all that was needed. From 1943 onward, tankers were begging for a larger tank with more armor and above all else, the 90mm gun.

[LBraden]

Yeah, the Ronson was kinda <deleted> for its time, even the Pz IV could pop them easily at ranges, but not the sort of range the Pz V and Pz VI could, but the main thing about the Ronson was that we had numbers, and the British "Firefly" mod was really the only effective weapon against the Pz V and Pz VI, but that was if it got a lucky side or back shot at medium range, and not get spotted at 2000 yrds.

Still, I find the Sten and subsequent Sterling SMG variant to be well shit, my reason:

My father was on foot patrol in Ballymena, Northern Ireland, walked past an RUC officer asleep in a chair, about 10 minutes later they made it up the hill, a RUC "car" pulled up and blared its horn to wake up the sleeping copper, who stood up and the sterling fell to the floor from his lap, and emptied its clip down the road, ripping my father's good boots, which he had only just broken in.

However, the Japanese in WWII kinda made some really bad weapons, mostly small arms and rifles, go on, take a gander at some of them, and the mish-match of calibres.