The location of the Pope during the Twilight War

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

And we have to look at the kinds of things the church would be doing to help survivors get back up on their feet.

Up on their feet, implying of course that is where they want them to be.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Up on their feet, implying of course that is where they want them to be.

I think they would... having people who are able to feed themselves, means that they will be able to give extra to the church to feed the church leaders or even send it to other communities to help them get back on their feet.

[firewalker]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Up on their feet, implying of course that is where they want them to be.

Why not even with a full dose of cynicism the deference between well feed organized powerful followers and a rabble of starving defenseless sad sacs is pretty easy? Even if were talking about the dud that look's around at his 100 loyal shooters and decides he wants’ to be pope (as well as secretary general of the UN and prince of the moon while he’s at it) is probley going to won’t to build up his "resources".

Any way there's a couple of things to keep in mind about the organization of the Catholic Church (some of this would also probley apply to other NGO typ's) first of its actually fairly decentrized at lest in a lot of the nut's and bolt’s type of things that would be mostly of interest to PC. Bishops and cardinals are generally in charge of there own arrears with the hiarcy providing an avenue for resource sharing and off course doctrinarian over site and frankly the last isn't going to be having much effect on the PC (even if your running a catholic PC group). Think of the pope more as a source of basic policy direction and final arbitrator.

That being said there is a level above which ONLY the pope can do things. For example no pope no new bishops/cardinals even the ability of bishops to ordain regular priests is in fact done in the name of the pope.

So a church with a sitting pope, John Paul or who ever would be (depending on the point in the timeline)

1.reastabling communication among dioceses and parshirs. This would also included providing pastoral care (priests and deacons) to places with out.

2.using the rebuilt network to agine shear recourses across dioceses in aid of the church aim's


Were as a church with out a sitting pope (almost surely do to John Paul's death) would be.

1.atimpting to gather enough cardinals (there is a specific quorum requirement) for a conclave. Also indecently thay are going to want the prelates of the non-roman right's there if possible as well.

2. sucuring and escorting the new pope (assuming he an't there) to were ever he wants to be. as an aside there's nothing that say's somebody has to be in attendance at the conclave to be raised to the papacy....in fact the only actual requirement is that he be a confermind adult catholic (of any rite).


On a slightly related note what about the Dalie lama (sp?) ? On one hand Tibet is by default free (China not really existing as such anymore) however “free” probley dose mean more likely in anarchy.

[mikeo80]

Along the lines of JPII visiting various parts of Europe when the balloon goes up....

What if JPII, The Dali Lama, ArchBishop of Cantebury, and others were meeting in Switzerland (Nice, neutral country). Trying to calm everyones nerves. The Balloon goes up. Now the scurry as the various prelates, their security and the Swiss Army all try to secure the safety of these religious leader. Inject a team of Russian Spetznatz to try to decapitate the various religions mentioned. Followed by a team of American Delta, British SAS, and who knows who else to "save the day". Heck even the Mossad might come to the party.

I would think this kind of "keystone cop" scenerio would devolve into a major shoot em up in the middle of Geneva. And Just where ARE the various religious leaders???

Another two cents

Mike

[Legbreaker]

My understanding is that organised religion was heavily suppressed in the USSR. As they were the major partner (only one with any actual power really), I don't see religious leaders being in a position to apply any influence of note on the PACT. They would though hold significant sway on the west in my opinion, sway which while well intended, could interfere with the political preparations required for effective war-making.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My understanding is that organised religion was heavily suppressed in the USSR. As they were the major partner (only one with any actual power really), I don't see religious leaders being in a position to apply any influence of note on the PACT. They would though hold significant sway on the west in my opinion, sway which while well intended, could interfere with the political preparations required for effective war-making.

What you say is very true. IRL, the USSR tried to become an non-religious country.... However, The Russian Orthodox Church was still alive and well during all of those years. Yes, the leaders I mentioned would have little or no influence on the Kremlin in T2K, the Primate of Moscow had a behind the scean voice that had to be acknowledged.

I do not think that anything JPII or any other religious leader said would interfere with the NATO prep for battle.

(The old joke, from Stalin I think, How many divisions does the Pope have?)

Mike

[Legbreaker]

It wouldn't interfere significantly on the military prep, but it would on the Politicians.
If/when the church was to throw in their two cents, any politician who wanted to stay in government would have to listen and act accordingly. The religious vote is powerful - take the US bible belt for example. What percentage of the population there is going to be listening to the Pope and other religious figures in preference to the politicians and Generals.
Once the ball was rolling though I doubt the church would have a lot of influence, but they'd be major factors in the time leading up to the decision to deploy. They might even have influence over the timeframes and manpower involved in the deployment.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It wouldn't interfere significantly on the military prep, but it would on the Politicians.
If/when the church was to throw in their two cents, any politician who wanted to stay in government would have to listen and act accordingly. The religious vote is powerful - take the US bible belt for example. What percentage of the population there is going to be listening to the Pope and other religious figures in preference to the politicians and Generals.
Once the ball was rolling though I doubt the church would have a lot of influence, but they'd be major factors in the time leading up to the decision to deploy. They might even have influence over the timeframes and manpower involved in the deployment.

The Bible Belt in the US is mostly Southern Baptist with sizable groups of Methodist and Pentatcostal (I know, my spelling sucks). The large Catholic areas are Louisiana, southern Mississippi, southern Alabama and Florida. This area has several military bases, as well as arsenals and ammunition plants. Its more likely that the area would go for MilGov or CivGov rather than PopeGov...

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

What if JPII, The Dali Lama, ArchBishop of Cantebury, and others were meeting in Switzerland...

Sounds like a set up for an off-color joke.

Seriously, though, it's a really interesting idea and it has a nice edge of plausibility. I wonder what they would do once the the war went nuclear and it became clear that their appeals were falling on deaf ears.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I wonder what they would do once the the war went nuclear and it became clear that their appeals were falling on deaf ears.

Duck and cover? Or just fall to their knees and pray?

Taking all the religious leaders out in one hit could result in a seriously nasty religious war that would put the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades and all the various Jihad's put together to shame.