The (fictional) 27 (Polish) SAS

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Would NATO Allies in 1997-1998 attempt to raise Brigades of troops from former allies and even some Polish and Czech Brigades to fight alongside it forces?

Abbott,

NATO made some impressive gains on their drive into the Soviet Union. Doubtless many Soviet units and individuals were cut off and unlike Warszawa, surrendered. In WWII the Germans raised different "White Russian" and Cossack units. During the Twilight War, it might make sense to recruit Russians and other "Soviet" ethnic groups to form their own units.

Continuing from WWII, Canada was a primary source for non-English SOE personnel as the younger society was more ethnically diverse than the "mother country". If Canada doesn't form it's own Polish unit, it would make sense that a fair degree of the 27th SAS would be Poles from Canada or possibly even the USA.

Tony

[Adm.Lee]

I've been told, and it might even have been true, that the Polish(-descended) population of Chicago makes it the 2nd largest Polish city in the world. Ditto the Hungarian population of Cleveland, a long time ago. I think I've heard the same for western Canada and Ukrainians (descended from Whites who fought the Bolsheviks in the '20s).

That would make for some recruiting grounds.

[Sanjuro]

How about a PPA shoulder flash?

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I've been told, and it might even have been true, that the Polish(-descended) population of Chicago makes it the 2nd largest Polish city in the world. Ditto the Hungarian population of Cleveland, a long time ago. I think I've heard the same for western Canada and Ukrainians (descended from Whites who fought the Bolsheviks in the '20s).

That would make for some recruiting grounds.

Adm.,

I can't speak for other ethnic groups, but the Ukrainian side of my family migrated from Czarist Gallicia to Saskatchewan around the turn of the century (well before the revolution). I've never heard of a specific White Russian motivation (too early) although that could be possible. It was more that the government and CN Rail advertised heavily in central and Eastern Europe at that time (pre-Revolution Russia) and many were lured by offers of free land in Saskatchewan. Members of my family didn't even speak English until sometime just after WWII.

I recall hearing about Ukrainian groups in Canada dedicated to maintaining links with the "old country". It's possible that they would work with western intelligence (receiving aid via Turkey and the Black Sea) or be recruited into various special operations groups.

Tony

[Abbott Shaull]

I for one don't see that NATO would find many benefits of recruiting such units in the long run. I can see them start the training process and what not, but would they be able to keep them together as a unit long enough to get them to the front before the unit would become to diluted?

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

I for one don't see that NATO would find many benefits of recruiting such units in the long run. I can see them start the training process and what not, but would they be able to keep them together as a unit long enough to get them to the front before the unit would become to diluted?

Abbott,

In the main, most Canadians would probably be recruited into their local regiments, and so on, regardless of ethnic background.

At least for special-purpose units or for operating behind the lines, people who actually know the language and culture as natives would be invaluable. I could see a Commando (special operations company) of the Airborne regiment made up of Poles recruited to operate behind the lines, or Ukrainians to operate in the Ukraine.

Tony

[Rainbow Six]

I've probably mentioned this before, but I'd recommend the novel "The Devil's Alternative" by Frederick Forsyth for anyone interested in the topic of Ukrainian separatists taking on the Soviet Union.

It's set in the 1980's. Long story short, British and Canadian citizens of Ukrainian descent ally with Ukrainian separatists inside the Ukraine in an attempt to assasinate the Chairman of the KGB when he's visiting (I think) Kiev.

The leader of the group outside the Ukraine is the son of a Cossack who surrendered to the British after World War 2 and managed to avoid being deported to the Soviet Union (I think by getting a British woman pregnant - it's been a while since I read it, although I do recall that the author goes into a fair bit of detail on the character's background).

Here's a link to the wiki entry (which does have a number of plot spoilers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil's_Alternative

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

I can see them start the training process and what not, but would they be able to keep them together as a unit long enough to get them to the front before the unit would become to diluted?

If they were recruited for a special-language commando unit, why would they then break it up?

As for the Ukrainians pre-WW1, I sit corrected.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

If they were recruited for a special-language commando unit, why would they then break it up?

As for the Ukrainians pre-WW1, I sit corrected.

If they were recruited for Commando type unit then they wouldn't break them up. Yet a lot of local raised units once they inducted would lose their local flavor real fast in military systems where they need to feed replacement to front line units.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

If they were recruited for Commando type unit then they wouldn't break them up. Yet a lot of local raised units once they inducted would lose their local flavor real fast in military systems where they need to feed replacement to front line units.

Abbott,

I understand this is not how they do things in the good ol' USA, but different countries adopt different practices. What you assume is universal may not always apply. Local regiments have all been effectively abolished in the US Army but have been retained in Canada and the UK to some degree. This didn't change in WWII, and at least might not happen in WWIII.

Canadian regular regiments ("Reg Force") recruit personnel from a wide(ish) general area, even the replacements will come from those areas. If you are from Quebec you are unlikely to be sent to an "Anglo" unit. In Canada: 2000 in Challenge magazine at least the Militia (reserve) regiments at least in Canada seem to have largely kept their regional and even local nature.

In this hypothetical case, a company or battalion of Ukrainian-Canadian volunteers could be sent to the Ukraine via Turkey sometime during the Twilight War. Or, assigned to the Canadian 5th MIB in western Europe.

Tony

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I've been told, and it might even have been true, that the Polish(-descended) population of Chicago makes it the 2nd largest Polish city in the world. Ditto the Hungarian population of Cleveland, a long time ago. I think I've heard the same for western Canada and Ukrainians (descended from Whites who fought the Bolsheviks in the '20s).

According to Wikitravel "Melbourne has the biggest Greek city population (over 800,000) outside Greece and the biggest Italian city population (over 230,000) outside Italy." OT but interesting.