Poland After OMEGA

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by sglancy12

I'm just going to say this so that we can acknowledge it and move back to the process of trying to force sense out of why XI Corps would just sit on its hands and watching TF 34 sail over the horizon.

This is a continuity error. Plain and simple.The writer claims IX Corp is cut off by Pact Forces and then failed to position any Pact Forces to do the job. Just an oversight.

Now, back to the RetCon.

So, the RetCon is to place a PACT Corps between U.S. XI Corps and German III Corps? I'm game.

[Abbott Shaull]

There were some Polish Troops, also there may have been rumors of Soviet troops moving north which some did during the counter offensive. Granted after the bulk of the one Polish Army more or less switch sides and several of the rest of the Polish army units making the consideration.

Now the real trick is how whatever Governments reclaim control of Germany and Poland do get along. The III German Corps withdrawing wouldn't make many friends with the Poles. The Poles in all aspect wouldn't really be too friendly to the UK or the French either. They were both part of the selling them out to the Soviets, even though the French were along for the ride at that point.

So even with large Pro-NATO in northern Poland. The government would not really trust the Germans who they felt started the war to begin with. UK would be trusted but within reason, they did after all allow the Government-in-Exile to continue to function in London even after they handed Poland to the Soviets. France it saving grace is the long history of alliances at times when the Polish were free against the various common enemies (ie Germans, Austria-Hungarian Empire, Russia) in the pass and they pulled out of the NATO and didn't actively take part in the what they would of seen as the German led invasion during WWIII.

As for the French being able to provide aid, well they will certainly have agents all over Europe. Them and Isreal will have several agents at the various large power centers in Central and Eastern Europe trying to make sure that only the ones they supported would eventual rule over these regions.

As for real physical help, for Poland at least they will stay away at least Northern Poland. Southern Poland would be pretty much cut off from formal help from the French, unless the France would be willing to use their Air Force to send aid. Two reason with troop on the Rhine region of Germany and not being in NATO, these two countries are more or less in undeclared war. France is in no position to slug it out with a weaken German Army and lay claim to more devastated areas.

Not only that the French would be interested in standing up the other Baltic State and other regions of Europe back on the path of stabilization. For nothing else to make sure they don't have to spread out their already spread out force.

[Legbreaker]

The XI Corps, at least the Canadians, 50th AD and 2nd Marines, is still a very strong formation. Writing off that firepower isn't somethng ANYONE is going to do lightly, even if it's preventing large scale evacuation.
As I've proposed, some transportation is available between XI Corps and the remainder of Nato, which would allow the transfer of individuals between them. Some from XI may wish to go home, while, as we know from Going Home, many other US troops chose, for various reasons, to stay - these people may choose to move into XI Corps AO.

The thought may be that with approximately 1/4 of US manpower staying in Europe, a second evacuation may occur in the following months. While waiting for this to be organised, XI could have been distilling fuel for a breakout to the south and west, taking with them absolutely TRUCKLOADS of vehicles, ammunition and other stores, all vital to either the Germans, or US recovery.

I do agree that there should be a Pact blocking force in place. I agree that the lack of such is either an oversight, misprint, or misinformation. The players should NEVER know exactly where the enemy is unless they've personally laid eyes on them. Leaving an obvious gap on the BYB map (and in the other books) could be construed as a part of this vagueness.

It is my personal belief that the map of unit locations in the 2.x book, cannot be taken as gospel - a fair indication perhaps, but I believe that during writing of all versions, the developers were a little pressed for time and this is one of the things they overlooked.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The XI Corps, at least the Canadians, 50th AD and 2nd Marines, is still a very strong formation. Writing off that firepower isn't somethng ANYONE is going to do lightly, even if it's preventing large scale evacuation.
As I've proposed, some transportation is available between XI Corps and the remainder of Nato, which would allow the transfer of individuals between them. Some from XI may wish to go home, while, as we know from Going Home, many other US troops chose, for various reasons, to stay - these people may choose to move into XI Corps AO.

The thought may be that with approximately 1/4 of US manpower staying in Europe, a second evacuation may occur in the following months. While waiting for this to be organised, XI could have been distilling fuel for a breakout to the south and west, taking with them absolutely TRUCKLOADS of vehicles, ammunition and other stores, all vital to either the Germans, or US recovery.

I believe those other than the XI Corps have chosen to stay. Of course, there will be this unit or that missed the boat, but for the large part units like the one Brigade from the 44th Armor Division and 11th Armor Cavalry Regiment stayed for various reason. One was to get power plant operation and set up their own kingdom if not use it as resource for the coming 'power' struggles, while the other returned to the region it was deployed before the war (which didn't make sense in the overall picture of things, but hey it was their story) that some in the unit still had ties too. The rest of the units of the US 7th and 4th Army and the other Corps that had been attached to a German Army that had stayed had done so in order to help the Germans rebuild.

If there was 2nd evacuation it would for the US XI Corp assuming that Northern Poland did stay with NATO.

As for the Corps staying, these units have learned what the Armies of Centuries past had already known. Once summer has past, it was time to start to preparing winter quarters. This would include setting up a Corps Supply Base, Divisional Supply, and Brigade/Regimental Supply Bases and then setting up the various Battalions, Squadrons, Companies, and Troops in an array to control the Corps XI as well as train local militia and police units.

IF the Corps decide to move, there was no way know for sure they would make it. No one in Germany would of been able to absorb and the pain in ass to realign units to give XI Corps a part of the line or place it in reserve. It would mean the Corps would have to start from scratch if they were placed in reserve and pissing off the local population when they realize their food stores would have to be shared with their new neighbors. Or much worse the Corps and the units they displace would have to build up, not from scratch, but the confusion during this time would lend itself where units would be more prone to Pact attack/raids.

I think it was probably the hardest choice that was made with the Supreme Commander, US Army, Europe Commander, and US XI Corps Commander and their HQs already having access these questions. Not know how loyal the newly NATO flagged Poles would be and if they would mind the units they had previous been fighting month ago would let their former enemy free passage too. Beside the unknown of the fighting effectiveness of the Soviet units moved north to replace the Polish units that were fighting the 3rd German Army during the offensive and the run away 5th and 8th US Mechanized Divisions.

[Legbreaker]

A second evac would indeed have to be aimed mainly at extracting the XI Corp, however those units which stayed to assist in rebuilding would surely find a berth available also.
A second evac would be much smaller than Omega and require a lot less resources. It's also presumable that the Nato commanders acknowledged the war was effectively over in September/October 2000 or else they probably wouldn't have authorised Omega. By Spring 2001, there may be enough Pact units withdrawn to allow XI Corp a decent chance too.