The what was they thinking thread

[Targan]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

The Vietnam-era LRRP consisted of six men, when these people went into the jungle on recon, they got to carry:
[snip]
120 40mm HE shells

10 40mm Buckshot shells

6 40mm Parachute Flare shells
[snip]

That's an impressive number of 40mm grenades! Effective munitions though so I can understand why so many.

I have a question - If the XM-21 was fielded from the second half of 1969 onwards but LRRP teams were operating for at least several years before that, what were LRRP teams using as a sniper rifle in early 1969 and before?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Targan

That's an impressive number of 40mm grenades! Effective munitions though so I can understand why so many.

I have a question - If the XM-21 was fielded from the second half of 1969 onwards but LRRP teams were operating for at least several years before that, what were LRRP teams using as a sniper rifle in early 1969 and before?

Usually M1s and accurized Remington 700s, or National Match M14s.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Usually M1s and accurized Remington 700s, or National Match M14s.

In the early days of 'Nam...there were Springfield M1903s complete with scope...that makes two World Wars, a Police Action and whatever the hell Vietnam was supposed to be, not a bad record!

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by Targan

That's an impressive number of 40mm grenades! Effective munitions though so I can understand why so many.

A lot of the LRRP/Ranger guys carried an XM177 and an M79 chopped down to pistol size instead of just a 79.

There seems to have been a lot of debate back then about whether lighter/stealthier teams were preferable to the heavy six man LRRP teams.

[Abbott Shaull]

One of the cases where you brought more than you thought you would need to overcome any contact and breakaway. On the other hand, it was close to being overburden so breaking away from said contact would be dicey. So what better way to lighten the load than rain down shells on them....

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

A lot of the LRRP/Ranger guys carried an XM177 and an M79 chopped down to pistol size instead of just a 79.

There seems to have been a lot of debate back then about whether lighter/stealthier teams were preferable to the heavy six man LRRP teams.

There was an arguement in the Infantry Journal about the ideal size for a recon patrol, being one man. The argument was that a single man would leave less trace, be able to hide in more places....

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

There was an arguement in the Infantry Journal about the ideal size for a recon patrol, being one man. The argument was that a single man would leave less trace, be able to hide in more places....

From what I've read (Ron Reid Daly's Top Secret War, if I remember right) there was one guy in the Selous Scouts who did extended LRRPs either alone or maybe, at most, with one guy he'd take with him. He had the same argument -- if the bad guys cut his trail they'd never think a single guy was anything friendly or enemy -- but it sounded like even among the Selous Scouts he was considered a bit touched in the head.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

From what I've read (Ron Reid Daly's Top Secret War, if I remember right) there was one guy in the Selous Scouts who did extended LRRPs either alone or maybe, at most, with one guy he'd take with him. He had the same argument -- if the bad guys cut his trail they'd never think a single guy was anything friendly or enemy -- but it sounded like even among the Selous Scouts he was considered a bit touched in the head.

I've seen this argument in a few sources. In one way, it makes a lot of sense, a conter-recon patrol would be looking for a small group of men, one person would stand an excellent chance of being ignored...but maybe I'm old school, a patrol of 4-men would be the best for a recon.