Fiddle's Green

[Abbott Shaull]

The thing back in the late 1980s when Mechanized Battalion was suppose to have 4 Mechanized Companies, HQ, HCC, Support Company as well as the Anti-tank Company. Like the Light Infantry cousins with their Weapons Company, the Company rarely served as combat unit in the field with the platoons and sections attach directly to the other combat units and HQ/HCC.

About the only time they did serve together was when the Battalion would be in the defensive position and they would cover high speed avenues of approaches to the defensive position that the cross-attach armor company(ies) didn't cover. Also during the offensive they and the various M113 based vehicle was limiting factor of how fast the battalion could move forward. Kinda hard to move to fast when many of the FO, FIST, and Ambulance were still based on them.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah never understood how anyone could think 4 M2 or 6 M3 could provide the proper number of dismounts for an Mechanized Infantry or Cavalry/Armor Cavalry platoon to perform their functions. Then again with some Divisional Cavalry and Battalion Scout Platoon converting to 6 HMMWV still had limited number of dismounts, for the Divisional Cavalry and Battalion Scout Platoon you wanted to have smaller dismounts for it was their job to screen, locate, and give the information to higher HQs.

Where the Armor Cavalry had this mission at Corps-level as well as misleading the enemy recon units in to thinking they were facing a much stronger force than a Troop, Squadron or Regiment. Thus tying up resources before their main body ran into the Corps main body.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah it is the one things I don't understand with the 2nd ACR now being Stryker Brigade and plans of changing the 3rd ARC into one. They have increase manpower, but they exchange the increase of manpower with the lost of combat punch.

I find it ironic that the new Heavy Brigades are similar to Armor Combat Commands of World War II. With similar irony that when these Brigades and the new Infantry Brigades were deployed they usually had third combat battalion attached to the Brigades. Rarely when they did deployed a Heavy and Infantry Brigade would also cross-attach a Battalion to give the lighter armed Infantry Brigade some punch and Heavy Brigade more manpower on the ground.

So yeah having a Company with up to 5 combat platoons seems to unwieldy. Yet, like I said the one platoon parsed out to the other platoons. Having 3 mounted infantry platoons companies would serve as the Mechanized companies/troops while the other company with 2 Infantry and 2 Tank platoons would served 'ideal' mix to give armor punch, but still have plenty of boots on the ground.

[Legbreaker]

What's the cost of an M2 or M3 compared to a Stryker?
What's the cost of maintenance?

Which one looks better on the annual budget papers?

In other words, which one can the politicians point to and say, "yes, we have more armoured vehicles on the ground at a reduced cost"?

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah only if the Stryker and it family of vehicle had been able to do what they were suppose to do, but that is another story.

Reason they weren't adopted before 2000, was that at the same time when the Army had been testing the LAV-25 with Marine Corps, the plans were in motion to buy the M2/M3 family for the Mechanized forces. I have always felt that the Wheeled Mechanized Brigade would fit in the US Army, especially like say the second Mechanized Brigade of the Mechanized Divisions and with the 2nd Infantry Division. Many other nations had done this with many of their Mechanized Division with one Brigade/Regiment being track and rest wheeled.

Yet, the M2/M3 was too new and they didn't want to dilute the supply chain with another vehicle since the older M113 and it variants would still be soldiering on for many years to come. What I find ironic is the Stryker Brigades are the only Brigades still established with 3 Stryker Infantry Battalions while the Heavy and Infantry Battalion have 2 Heavy Task Forces or Infantry Battalion(Light).

It sad that even the last true ACR is being converted to Stryker Brigade, had hoped that at least one decent Brigade size unit would survive intact...*ugh*

On side note if they took a Stryker Battalion from every two Stryker Brigades and move things around they would still be able to raise the 5th Brigade the Army had planned on being Infantry Brigades but cancelled in early 2010....Oh Well.

[Panther Al]

As mentioned in another thread, the Iraqi army has spent over two billion dollars on US equipment over the past few years, including such things as ODS Brads and M1A1SA's. Just enough of both to equip an "elite" division extremely well, while the rest will be getting rebuilt WarPac grade (The high end granted) equipment. So far, the universal opinion is that now the Iraqi's really have a good grasp at just how game changing the M1 is when it comes to armoured warfare in the region, and how much training makes a difference. At any rate, even though they have not received them all yet, nor have the finished training all the personnel that will field this largesse of stuff, they are already looking at their most likely threats (Iran and Turkey) and seeing something they might change. Was talking with a buddy is part of the US troops training them and he says their officers are already pointing out that M1's, and in particular this division, is not equipped nor trained for urban combat, but for open field. And since they don't have to worry about trees and such blocking turret traverse, how hard will it be to install a longer calibre gun tube in the Abrams, if not a 140? Seems that they accept the fact that they won't get their hands on DU ammo, so are looking for ways to maximize what they do have.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah it is grand we are re-arming their elite unit with our ancient materials of war while the rest of their army is still Pact armed.