US Army AAA in T2K

[Mohoender]

I like the idea of MATT but I would go more simply with an M1 mounting a German Gepard turret with twin 35mm. More punch than the 25mm and a turret that is readily available and need no development. An other interesting vehicle would be to have the trial ADATS-Bradley going to production.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I like the idea of MATT but I would go more simply with an M1 mounting a German Gepard turret with twin 35mm. More punch than the 25mm and a turret that is readily available and need no development.

Sounds badass.

[Matt Wiser]

About the only problem with that is the NIH syndrome, which infects the Pentagon. If GDLS (General Dynamics Land Systems) had their own turret design, with radar and twin 35-mm, and offered that to the Army, in a competition with Gepard, guess which would likely be the winner? Unless Congress dictated an off-the-shelf purchase, in which case Gepard turrets on the M-1 chassis would be the likely solution.

[Legbreaker]

Another problem with the Gepard turret is that it may not be as available as you think. How many have Germany got? How many are they producing? Has any other nation got them?
How many "spares" may there be in wartime?

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, I'm just not so sure it would be feasible due to supply issues.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

In regards to the Gepard turret, the numbers in service in the 1980s-1990s were roughly the following: -
West Germany 377
Belgium 55
the Netherlands 95

There are also other off-the-shelf turrets that could have been purchased (like the Gepard turret, these systems were designed to be fitted to tank hulls).
Marconi Marksman link 1 link 2 link 3
OTO-Melara Otomatic link 1 (no pics but has links to images) link 2

[Mohoender]

Acording to the Jane's 1984-1985, the Gepard's turret is rated under "international" (NATO). It is also stated that it can be installed on most MBTs including M48 and M60. Nothing was said at the time about the M1 but the tank was just going in production.

Leg, I was not thinking of German produced turret (except may be for the first batch) but of licenced built turrets.

In addition to the turret systems already sited you have the Thompson-CSF Sabre twin 30mm.

[Legbreaker]

Fair enough. The concept is certainly doable, the only real issue is which system would be used and would the purse strings be opened wide enough, early enough for it to be useful (bugs to work out, limited numbers on the battlefield, etc).

Once the war had been raging for a while and a few spare M1 bodies were laying about, I can see field mods springing up. Throw a towed 20mm PIVAD, captured ZU-23-2 or even a 40mm Bofors on where the turret used to be, strap it all down with chewing gum and fencing wire and you've got yourself an effective infantry destroyer.

Might even see some armour plating bolted on here and there to try and protect the gun crews a little.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

About the only problem with that is the NIH syndrome, which infects the Pentagon. If GDLS (General Dynamics Land Systems) had their own turret design, with radar and twin 35-mm, and offered that to the Army, in a competition with Gepard, guess which would likely be the winner? Unless Congress dictated an off-the-shelf purchase, in which case Gepard turrets on the M-1 chassis would be the likely solution.

And you can rest assured that if the DoD held bidding for a new ADA system, that the US-based manufactuers will go all out to out-bid any foreign builder...

Anybody remember the fun and games that Smith & Wesson pulled when the M-9 contract was let out? For a while there I thought Beretta and S&W would hold gunfights out in the parking lot!

When Beretta won the trails, S&W had no problems with calling in their lobbyists and their in-house congressmen and throwing a monkey wrench into the approval process, they managed to delay the M-9 for almost two years...for a major contract like a new ADA system...you would think that the Cyberpunk game universe had come to life!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

And you can rest assured that if the DoD held bidding for a new ADA system, that the US-based manufactuers will go all out to out-bid any foreign builder...

And have "unforeseen" cost overruns once manufacture started...