Germany in T2K

[Legbreaker]

I think the G11 would be scarce in V2.x simply because reunification actually happened as in reality. The G11 in the world as we know it only had an extremely limited run of about 1,000.
With East Germany returning to the fold as it does in 2.x, the same issues would have arisen as they have IRL.

In V1 though I'm all for the G11 to have seen widespread issue, virtually replacing the G3 as was intended prior to 1989. In V1, Germany didn't reunify until the beginning of the war in 1996 which allows more than enough time and money to be spent on rearming the west with it. The only issue in V1 reducing the number of G11's in use is the availability of ammunition.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I think the G11 would be scarce in V2.x simply because reunification actually happened as in reality. The G11 in the world as we know it only had an extremely limited run of about 1,000.
With East Germany returning to the fold as it does in 2.x, the same issues would have arisen as they have IRL.

In V1 though I'm all for the G11 to have seen widespread issue, virtually replacing the G3 as was intended prior to 1989. In V1, Germany didn't reunify until the beginning of the war in 1996 which allows more than enough time and money to be spent on rearming the west with it. The only issue in V1 reducing the number of G11's in use is the availability of ammunition.

Which one has to remember is part of the sticky points with NATO. They have tried to more or less to get everyone using the same calibre and types of rounds. When you are the only one using the one type of rounds, not many others can help you with your logistical problem of arming troops.

That and throw into real life as Poland and other Eastern Europe nations were absorbed into NATO and some before switch their rounds from the former Pact standard to NATO standard fairly quickly with all things considered. In many case the equipment inherited by the Germany Army from East Germany went on to help supply several Eastern Europe neighbors. Even the small arms were sold off relatively quickly to help make for efforts to get their forces using the same equipment. Of course, the reduction of forces helped out here too.

[Legbreaker]

Real life did indeed involve a number of different calibres, however we're talking about a game and the addition of only one calibre which is superior in almost every way to that used by the rest of Nato.

Supply issues there may have been, but there's almost no chance of German and English speaking soldiers serving shoulder to shoulder and having to share mags. Why? Because of the language barrier of course! A commander simply cannot bank on having even a small part of his troops able to communicate with each other, therefore they must plan to keep them as two (or more) separate operational units.

[B.T.]

In Germany the English language is taughed to all pupils. Off course, most Germans do not need so much of this later in their life, but in an environment and a situation like the Twilight War many Germans would train their English skills.

(By the way: I, from a personal point of view, think it's way easier to talk to someone in English, than to write in English!)

I don't think some kind of situation report or tactical briefing between English/American and German forces would work very good (In some cases it would, depending on the individual skills of the people being involved!), but begging for ammo or calling in indirect fire should work in most cases.

In my Twilight World it is not uncommon to have people from different countries serving together in a "new" unit - Germans in the 5th Inf. Div., Poles or Russians in a NATO unit or Americans as part of a Bundeswehr unit.

The German forces in the Twilight universe have a serious problem with their ammo: In each unit there would be at least 3 different kinds of ammo - 7,62 NATO; 9mm Para and 4,7 caseless or 5,56 NATO. If a unit is armed with a mix of G11 and G41/M16, these units would need 4 different kinds of ammo. If the units had AKs with them, the situation would be even worse!

[Legbreaker]

The multiple ammo is an issue in most armies. In Australia for example in the late 80s a Rifle section in the infantry with 9 men had 9mmP, 5.56mm, and 7.62mm, plus all the various heavier weapons including 40mmHEDP, M72s, grenades, and on occasion 81mm mortar rounds and 84mm Carl Gustav rounds.

The Germans having 7.62N, 4.7cls OR 5.56N and maybe 9mmP (for those rare individuals with pistols, or the handful with MP-5s) doesn't look to be much of an issue, especially if the 4.7mm pistol rumoured to have been in development was fielded. (naturally they'd still have the heavier ammo to carry and supply).

[James Langham]

Perhaps the best reason to include the G11 is to emphasize the way that technology is failing. Bear in mind by 1990 the G3s in service were often older than their users and reaching the end of their service life. Something needed doing (v2.2 notes the draw down of the German Army despite the Soviet threat - perhaps this freed up funding for the G11) The expansion in 1995/6 however will have resulted in a huge mix of weapons and the resulting logistics nightmare.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Perhaps the best reason to include the G11 is to emphasize the way that technology is failing. Bear in mind by 1990 the G3s in service were often older than their users and reaching the end of their service life. Something needed doing (v2.2 notes the draw down of the German Army despite the Soviet threat - perhaps this freed up funding for the G11) The expansion in 1995/6 however will have resulted in a huge mix of weapons and the resulting logistics nightmare.

That was true for most units that still fielded the 7.62 on both sides at the time. In some cases in some units of the US the older M16s and Colt-15s could be older than their current users.