Check out the new shotgun!!

[HorseSoldier]

Yeah, exactly, it's based on the earlier Neostad, which was never available in the US if I'm not mistaken.

[TiggerCCW UK]

I'd been just about to post that it sounded like the Neostad....

While we're on the subject of Kel Tec, I recently saw an advert for the PMR 30 - looks decent bit of kit, although I think there have been all kinds of issues with shipping delays for it. From what I've read its an update of an old Grendel design. Is the .22 magnum round enough to turn it into a reasonable weapon, or is it still best suited for plinking?

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTizq4NCto

They also built an SMG variant, solely to test the magazines apparently - looks like a lot of fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GxF...eature=related

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I'd been just about to post that it sounded like the Neostad....

While we're on the subject of Kel Tec, I recently saw an advert for the PMR 30 - looks decent bit of kit, although I think there have been all kinds of issues with shipping delays for it. From what I've read its an update of an old Grendel design. Is the .22 magnum round enough to turn it into a reasonable weapon, or is it still best suited for plinking?

Varmint round. Gelatin penetration with most loads is <9", which seems to indicate it's not going to reliably cause incapacitation in a human target. YMMV.

- C.

[pmulcahy11b]

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol). The main virtue seems to be magazine capacity, but I don't think the T2K rules adequately illustrate the damage difference between a .22 Long Rifle round, a .22 WMR round, and heavier rounds like .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum. (Or for that matter, between .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum themselves.)

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol).

I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm thinkin' it'll be pretty darn close to the Colt SCAMP. The .22 SCAMP round was 40 grains at 2100fps at the muzzle; .22 WMR's 40-grain load runs around 1900fps.

- C.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I have the PMR-30 on my site, but hadn't head of the machine pistol variant (I believe it would fall into the category of machine pistol). The main virtue seems to be magazine capacity, but I don't think the T2K rules adequately illustrate the damage difference between a .22 Long Rifle round, a .22 WMR round, and heavier rounds like .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum. (Or for that matter, between .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm Parabellum themselves.)

I was thinking that in purely game terms it would make a decent sidearm in Dark Conspiracy, possibly for some of the corp security units.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Varmint round. Gelatin penetration with most loads is <9", which seems to indicate it's not going to reliably cause incapacitation in a human target. YMMV.

- C.

Would the rapid follow up shot potential (and huge magazine capacity) not limit this as a problem? Surely three or four hits from a .22 magnum would still sting bit?

[Legbreaker]

Sting, yes. Take down reliably, no, not much chance of that.