M59 APC?

[Matt Wiser]

If the M-103s are in storage, then certainly parts and main gun ammo are as well. FYI the USMC had theirs stored at the USMC Logistics Base in Barstow, CA, before they were used as targets or donated for museum display.

[HorseSoldier]

The ones I saw at Anniston probably came from Barstow then, on their way to becoming reefs down in the Florida keys. Circa 2004 or so they also had about a brigade of Sheridans in a yard waiting for demilling into reefs or whatever also. A lot of those had bumper numbers making them Panama vets, plus some stuff that looked like it'd seen the rougher side of NTC and JRTC.

[dragoon500ly]

Like it has been shown many times on this forum; Uncle Sam stores a lot of equipment and just lets it set. Doesn't mean that it is in servicible condition. There is one thing to watch for on tanks; if the tank is in servicable condition and has been mothballed, critical equipment is pulled from the interior, packaged in a dehumidifer containers and then stored in a wooden, plastic lined crate bolted onto the back deck, and usually has a tarp in place, covering the turret hatches and most of the container.

If the vehicle is stored in a vehicle park, without the container on the back deck...its very likely that the interior has been stripped of anything useable and its waiting on disposal, either as a reef, or for a smelter.

A comment was posted stating that ammunition for a M-103 would be available...well, the correct answer is both yes and no. Ammunition degrades over time, as the propellent approaches the end of its service life (roughly 15 years with modern propellent), it is sent back to an ammo factory for refurbishment or disposal. Back in the 60s and 70s, you certainly could find 120mm tank ammo. But by the 80s and 90s, most of it had been disposed of or dearmed and used for museum displays; the Patton Museum has a decent selection of demilled ammo that they pull out on occasion, and, of course, Aberdeen Proving Grounds has probably the best selection.

Another thing that people overlook is the museum/static display vehicles, please rest assured that for the most part, what you have is a stripped vehicle, often missing critical equipment such as the engine pack. Next time you see one, stand off to the side and see if the tail end is noticeably higher than the bow of the tank, if it is, then the pack is missing. My local National Guard Armory has an M-60A3 on display, won a dinner at TGI Fridays when I proved that one was missing its pack, breechblock and fire control equipment!

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Like it has been shown many times on this forum; Uncle Sam stores a lot of equipment and just lets it set. Doesn't mean that it is in servicible condition. There is one thing to watch for on tanks; if the tank is in servicable condition and has been mothballed, critical equipment is pulled from the interior, packaged in a dehumidifer containers and then stored in a wooden, plastic lined crate bolted onto the back deck, and usually has a tarp in place, covering the turret hatches and most of the container.

If the vehicle is stored in a vehicle park, without the container on the back deck...its very likely that the interior has been stripped of anything useable and its waiting on disposal, either as a reef, or for a smelter.

A comment was posted stating that ammunition for a M-103 would be available...well, the correct answer is both yes and no. Ammunition degrades over time, as the propellent approaches the end of its service life (roughly 15 years with modern propellent), it is sent back to an ammo factory for refurbishment or disposal. Back in the 60s and 70s, you certainly could find 120mm tank ammo. But by the 80s and 90s, most of it had been disposed of or dearmed and used for museum displays; the Patton Museum has a decent selection of demilled ammo that they pull out on occasion, and, of course, Aberdeen Proving Grounds has probably the best selection.

Another thing that people overlook is the museum/static display vehicles, please rest assured that for the most part, what you have is a stripped vehicle, often missing critical equipment such as the engine pack. Next time you see one, stand off to the side and see if the tail end is noticeably higher than the bow of the tank, if it is, then the pack is missing. My local National Guard Armory has an M-60A3 on display, won a dinner at TGI Fridays when I proved that one was missing its pack, breechblock and fire control equipment!

Yeah but some idiot will find rounds that is unstable and try to use it...lol

[HorseSoldier]

Places with enough time and resources might be able to rig up one offs, or even small production runs, of reactivated armor using stuff and skills available to them -- being able to bluff with, say, a platoon of tanks defending your town (museum piece M26s and M47s with diesel truck engines shoe horned into them in place of standard engines, no main gun ammo but no optics either, and maybe rigged up to turn the main gun into a launcher for rocket/pipe bomb ordnance made out of PVC, black powder, and optimism) might do a lot to keep the local chapter of Hells Angels at bay. More observant PCs might wonder why the tanks in question seem to max out at 5-10 miles per hour and other little clues that something isn't quite adding up . . .

[raketenjagdpanzer]

So, briefly, here's the write-up for the M59A1.

From 1996, as stocks of M2s, LAVs, and even the venerable M113 began to dwindle and production ramp-up was still lagging behind, the US Army was authorized to break some nnn M59 Armored Personnel Carriers out of long-term storage for use on the battlefields of Europe and the mideast. Some nnn were considered too damaged to rebuild and use, leaving conservatively some nnn for refurbishing at Anniston Army Depot, Fort Knox, and other locations.

The battlefield environment had changed radically since the M59's introduction, and subsequently the vehicle was deemed largely unsuited to anything other than support roles. M59s began their second lives fulfilling ammunition haulers, ambulances, command vehicles and other rear-echelon duties. Some n were deployed to Europe, with another n going to the mideast.

The Thanksgiving Day Massacre left the United States with very little sealift capability, and what airlift was left was concentrated on relief effort and executive relocation in the CONUS. Consequently, the bulk of the M59s remained in the US.

Modification of the M59 brought the units up to the new designated M59A1 standard:

Passive IR vision for driver and commander
Overpressure A/C system for N/B/C environment
Cage or Slat type applique armor for protection against shaped charges.
Inclusion of new MIL-STD 1553 data bus systems for onboard electronics (-A2 command variants and -A3 tank destroyer (see below) only).

The M59A3, despite being a near post-TDM design based on a half-century old armored vehicle represented an ingenious technological leap. Already, vehicles were using systems like IVIS to coordinate fire and maneuver, and a wireless data-link system was build into the data bus which could be plugged in to the Tankbreaker siting system (now built into the hull of the M59A3) via standard IEE-488 data connection. This allowed local hand-off of sighting data from vehicle to vehicle: if one vehicle had line of sight and another with a ready round didn't, the sighting vehicle could push data to it's local companion who could then fire a "cold" shot which would track and acquire after launch.

If the -A3 had serious disadvantages they were this: the gunner had to stand in the commander's cupola and fire the Tankbreaker while exposed, as the missile launcher and gunner's sighting system were mounted on an M175 rail. This led to Soviet sniper teams being dispatched for "Boar hunting" missions ("Boar" or "хряк" was the Soviet nickname for the large, ungainly but dangerous M59A3) where Tankbreaker gunners were targeted immediately when the M59A3 would appear. Additionally, due to the location of the commander's sight for the Tankbreaker, the Rhino was poor in ambush, as the sight was low enough on the hull to restrict use in enfilade.

Despite the continuation of the war in the European theater, there was still a need for armored vehicles stateside as well: Division Cuba was a serious threat in Texas, and Soviet divisions were still trying to push through Alaska. N M59A2 "Rhino" tank destroyers were deployed to great effect in both theaters; one account is that a pair of Rhinos, along with three LAV-25s from the 1st Texas Brigade engaged a Soviet/Cuban motor rifle company at full strength and achieved a 4:1 kill ratio, holding a key bridge near Arlen, Texas. Commander Henry Rutherford Hill received the Texas Star and the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions; his gunner, William "Wild Bill" Dauterive personally dispatched the MRC's command platoon, getting off six Tankbreaker shots in just over ninety seconds.

(N=I don't have actual numbers in mind yet)

[Legbreaker]

Post nuke I rather doubt there'd be any ability to install electronics into the vehicle.