Worldwide weapony post-T2K

[Legbreaker]

It doesn't have to be the Soviets nuking France - there's plenty of other countries that may do it, out of spite for not upholding their treaty obligations if nothing else.
Or it could have been the Soviets. All they'd need to do is put the blame on somebody else and with the French invasion of Germany (to the Rhine) they'd have a perfect excuse to point the finger at either Germany, the US or even Britain.
It could be argued that Nato commanders/politicians honestly believed the French had climbed into bed with the Italians (another former Nato partner) and were opening an additional front behind Nato lines.

Anyway, the point is it's possible France was indeed nuked.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Anyway, the point is it's possible France was indeed nuked.

Obviously but the point is up to each gamemaster.

If you want to go by the game's point of view the answer is lightly!

If you change that point of view and add a new approach the answer is of course.

As a result, France would be mix of isolated and devasted lands with small local areas under control. As the nuke were falling on France, destroying much little than in the rest of Europe but eliminating Transport, national political leadership, communication and power production (The destruction of Paris and Lyon being the major blow), the country entered a period of progressive dissolution. Regions were the first to secede, declaring sovereignty over their lands one after another. The departements didn't play a real role but simply dissolved. Cities turned onto the countryside. Then, county's (cantons) turned against each other generating as many petty war as possible. Finally, Valleys turned onto valleys and villages turned on each other. Members of the gendarmerie and local forces brought support to those they new best and peasants digged out the weapons their fathers and grand fathers had burried.

The South of France has become even more violent when the Corsicans tried to take over. They were quickly opposed by the local mafias and the entire area from Marseille to Nice is now a war zone were gangs are conducting a bitter fight. Men are killed or executed on a daily bases (often with wife and kids). Then, people living further away from the coastline distrust those that call gangsters and anyone coming from the coast is shot on sight.

The low and high mountain turned onto themselves and are considered out of control. In fact, nothing is so far from the truth and they are probably the most stable areas as long as you are not a stranger (bear in mind that, in France, stranger often relate to people you cannot reach by foot walk). Mountaineer have established societies of their own which, if isolated, are among the most stable. Funny enough, the most remote areas of France have become the most advanced as they still had the capability to function onto themselves.

Some area of civilized stability remain nonetheless in regions such as Britany or the Camargue. Then, the cities that housed a garrison (when not destroyed) or retained some kind of fortification often managed to gain control over the closed countryside. As an exemple, Epernay, with support from the 34th engineer regiment, managed to take control over part of the Marne Valley. In addition, St Tropez and St Malo are again cities of privateers and pirates as their militias had been rebuilt.

Nuke France, and here is a way it could have evolved.

[95th Rifleman]

An idea I've been toying with is a timeline that assumes the soviets left france alone. The year is late 2000 and the players are part of an ad-hoc unit that has either been pulled back into germany or found their own way there.

The twilight war is effectively over. America has a civil war to deal with, the european nations that got stuck in are hurt and focussing on their own affairs. In the aftermath of the twilight war the WP effectively fell apart with russia nursing her injuries, perhaps dealing with an internal revolt (playing around with some ideas on that).

France decides to expand, either they get a nationalist leader who pulls a napolean/hitler (this is te idea i'm most inclined to go with) or the democraic government decides it's time to take advantage.

The PCs, tired and war weary, find themselves facing this new French invasion of germany.

Working on the details and planning to run it as eithera stand alone scenario or a medium length campaigh for my gaming group.

[Mohoender]

Nice Ideas but I have one comment and two questions, hoping it can help

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

In the aftermath of the twilight war the WP effectively fell apart with russia nursing her injuries, perhaps dealing with an internal revolt (playing around with some ideas on that).

Here is the comment. Russia would be dealing with several revolts I think. Nationalism is not only the fact of the Chechens and as soon as Moscow cease to pay for peace, several might rise up. The Mongols might also be an interesting addition to this.

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

France decides to expand, either they get a nationalist leader who pulls a napolean/hitler (this is te idea i'm most inclined to go with) or the democraic government decides it's time to take advantage.

First questions why should the leader of France be Napoleonic (Hitler is out of the question)? It can be, however, a revival of the monarchy or extremist Republicans such as Robespierre (or even beter Marat). It can also be a type of communism. It is widely outlooked but communism is a reference to the Paris commune and the red flag was first raised in France (before 1789 it meant that you couldn't count on any mercy, by 1790 it was raised by the French National Guard and it was raised again in 1871 durng the Paris Commune).

Another question: Why would France expend toward Germany where it will have to enter a bitter fight (everything there has to be rebuilt, no industrial advantage, mining exploitation are all destroyed and already well exhausted)? IMO, the natural expension zone for France is Africa where it would be able to take over the ongoing genocide with nobody to complain about it. Raw materials might not be readily available but there is little extended destruction and raw materials are far from exhaustion.

Not a politically correct idea, I agree but couldn't it make sence?

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

First questions why should the leader of France be Napoleonic (Hitler is out of the question)? It can be, however, a revival of the monarchy or extremist Republicans such as Robespierre (or even beter Marat). It can also be a type of communism. It is widely outlooked but communism is a reference to the Paris commune and the red flag was first raised in France (before 1789 it meant that you couldn't count on any mercy, by 1790 it was raised by the French National Guard and it was raised again in 1871 durng the Paris Commune).

Another question: Why would France expend toward Germany where it will have to enter a bitter fight (everything there has to be rebuilt, no industrial advantage, mining exploitation are all destroyed and already well exhausted)? IMO, the natural expension zone for France is Africa where it would be able to take over the ongoing genocide with nobody to complain about it. Raw materials might not be readily available but there is little extended destruction and raw materials are far from exhaustion.

Not a politically correct idea, I agree but couldn't it make sence?

When I describe a possible French leader pulling a napolean/hitler I meant in the political sense. Post-2k there would be allot of social and political turmoil in all nations, including France. The world has just weathered WW3 and survived (sort of). One of the ldest tools in the political armoury is to focus the people on an outside threat.

Economicly Fance is relatively screwed at first, there are no countries in a position to import or export untill industries and economies can be rebuilt. Sure France could manufacture goods and charge steep prices for them, but who can actualy pay? We are talking mostly in terms of IOUs for the first five to ten years of rebuilding. Where are the cargo ships and transport planes to deliver these goods?

Now I'm making some big assumptions in order for this scenario to work I admit. I'm assuming that a nationalistic, charismatic individual arises in France and uses fiery, nationalistic rehtoric to become popular and powerful. This also assumes a weak and ineffective administatration at the time. Going along similar lines to Germany in the 30's, this charismatic leader preaches unity through fear, he creates in the national subconsious a fear of France's neighbours. He tells the people that envious eyes in broken, war-mongering nations look at France, they hate France for not joining in their bloodbath and they see Fance as their next target.

The fact that Germany is no military threat doesn't even mean anything to the majority of French civilians, tis leader reminds them of the two previous world wars, started by German aggression. He spins the Twilight war as another Germanic power-grab, citing it was Germany's lust for domination that once more plunged the world into war. Sure it is anoutright lie, but the facts can be bent to fuel it, after all Germany DID start the war by advancing into east germany did it not?

With the fear of their neighbours to spur them, the French rally around this new leader and rebuild the French economy, forging links with the nations not affected by the war too much, rebuilding cargo ships and the like. The fear-tactics he has used to get into power rule the French leader (as it has done for every politician who uses such politics) and incidents along the border which he has used for political gain force hm to take an aggressive stance and before you know it, French troops are crossing the rhine.

Sure it's unlikely, but it is a possibility.

[Raellus]

I bet that France after the TDM has a lot of trouble with its minority populations. Worst case scenario would like a lot like the situation we see in the film Children of Men. Couple that scenario with nationalist insurgencies in Holland and Belgium, and a Germany eager to reclaim its lost territory (and rearmed with American AFVs and heavy weapons ceded to them aftere Omega), and France is going to have plenty of issues to deal with in late 2000 and beyond.

This extreme turmoil could lead to the election of a French ultra-nationalist leader.

[Legbreaker]

Of course we all know that TDM is a term that can only apply to the USA. Much of the rest of the world had already received their ration (and would continue to do so for some time).

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Sure it's unlikely, but it is a possibility.

In fact it makes perfect sense. I only disagree with your economic point of view. You still think economic in terms of profit and that is a conception outdated under T2K. Most exchange will be made either in gold or through barter and France retains a need for raw materials.

Transport might be a problem of course but you can expect France to do two things. First, it will engaged in a ship contruction program similiar to that of the Liberty Ships in WW2 (although at a much reduced rate). Then, it will seize and repair whatever ships it can find. Several will already be in Belgium/French harbors. A little more might be seized in the Netherlands and African ports.

As a result, I would expect the French to be able to establish some secure sealanes within two years. These will not extend worldwide but should possibly be enough to maintain communication with the less damaged areas. At the time France still had a fair number of escort ships and much more could be built in little time (Estienne d'Orves-class for exemple).

[Legbreaker]

I'd imagine the French would only really need small escort vessels to protect their shipping post 2000. Patrol boats (armed with a couple of torpedos and a 20mm gun), corvettes and the like should be more than enough to beat off any pirates that may be lurking about in most places. The bigger prewar ships (frigates, cruisers, etc) should be sufficient for the longer range operations given the almost total lack of serious opposition anywhere on the planet.
Can't see total domination of the sea lanes happening though - it's more likely the French would work on the old convoy principle of half a dozen plus freighters escorted by two or three naval vessels (which may even include a submarine).