Are European handguns rubbish?

[B.T.]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Brad Thor's first book Lions of Lucerene (sp) has his main character in Swiss Confederation hunting for the kidnappers of the President. And he needed a gun but couldn't buy a real one... so he bought an airsoft pistol of the pistol he really wanted to get... because he felt the appearence of hving a gun was better than not having a gun....

In several countries that would not be a good idea. The laws on posessing and carrying weapons here in Europe are very restrictive. Have a look to the laws on knifes in the UK, for example.

Here in Germany you can be charged for showing a airsoft in public. And the fees can be enormous, depending on situation. It is, however, not a crime, it is an "Ordnungswidrigkeit" ("infringement of law" is what my dictionary calls that circumstance, I hope, this gives an idea to all of you.).

Well, the rest has been said. Some very fine handguns here in Europe, selling good on the international weapons market and very popular with law enforcement agencies all over the world.

[Caradhras]

Thanks for all the replies - interesting. I did think there were a lot of very good European arms manufacturers and hence must be some good handguns. I had heard that those very heavy handguns like the Desert Eagle were too unwieldy to be as effective as a 'normal' handgun.

For clarification, the CIA guy does specifically say European not Russian (or I wouldnt have been too surprised).

[bobcat]

well lets see. john browning was an american.
glocks are by design(double action with no manual safety) unsafe to carry loaded
and i have yet to hold a Beretta that wasn't crap

but SIG, HK, and the Cz 75 make up for the crapiness of those i mentioned and then some.


of course i never trust any weapon made in a country where i cannot legally carry said weapon. (a prime example of the reasons why is the SA80)

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I think his response may be due to several instances where either poor training on/understanding of the Glock safety mechanism resulted in unauthorized discharges by people who should have known better or (the more likely of the two I think), where several Glock pistols have been found to be poorly manufactured and resulted in pistols blowing themselves apart in the users hand.
I don't recall if the destructing pistols were ones manufactured in Austria or at the Smyrna, Georgia factory in the US.

IIRC, most of the Glock kaboom incidents were in the .40 S&W and .357 SIG models, which combine a higher-pressure cartridge with a partially-unsupported casing. A lot of them were a convergence of factors... including excessive powder charges in reloaded casings.

(ObT2k: This is one hazard of reusing brass multiple times.)

Originally Posted by Panther Al

As to the list, yeash. How did I forget CZ. There is a company that never gets the props it is due.

+1. IMO, if you don't want to carry plastic, the CZ 75 is one of the best values on the market today.

Originally Posted by bobcat

glocks are by design(double action with no manual safety) unsafe to carry loaded

Yeah, I know. Hard to believe anyone survived carrying revolvers all those years...

- C.

[95th Rifleman]

Europe produces, arguably, the world's best handguns. Afterall even the US military use an Italian 9mm as their standard service pistol.

The main argument is mainly over the balance between stopping power and magazine capacity. The heavier and more effective the round, the less you get to play with. Most militaries have chosen in favour of capacity.

However in the 21st century a new factor has come into play, armour penetration. Most modern militaries use body armour as standard which makes both the .45 and the 9mm useless. The Germans have developed a 4.6mm round to deal with arour while FN has gone with a 5.7mm.

As body armour becomesmore and more widespread the compromise will become a complicated triangle of factors and will become far more interesting.

[natehale1971]

B.T. The reason why he felt that way, was because he was tracking down a group of Swiss Mercs who had kidnaped the President of the United States (while making it look like it was done by terrorists), while running away from the Secret Service because they thought he was somehow involved... and having to operate under the radar. the only times he 'showed the gun' was to get people out of danger when the bad guys showed up.

It's a really good read, and i can't do it justice in just a couple of lines.

Originally Posted by B.T.

In several countries that would not be a good idea. The laws on posessing and carrying weapons here in Europe are very restrictive. Have a look to the laws on knifes in the UK, for example.

Here in Germany you can be charged for showing a airsoft in public. And the fees can be enormous, depending on situation. It is, however, not a crime, it is an "Ordnungswidrigkeit" ("infringement of law" is what my dictionary calls that circumstance, I hope, this gives an idea to all of you.).

Well, the rest has been said. Some very fine handguns here in Europe, selling good on the international weapons market and very popular with law enforcement agencies all over the world.

[dragoon500ly]

I've had to depend on a .45 twice in my life (both times in a home invasion situation). Say what you will about the 9mm, IMHO, when your life is on the life, the .45 ACP will put your man down every time.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I've had to depend on a .45 twice in my life (both times in a home invasion situation). Say what you will about the 9mm, IMHO, when your life is on the life, the .45 ACP will put your man down every time.

The British developed the "double tap" method to ensure quick, clean 9mm kills.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

The British developed the "double tap" method to ensure quick, clean 9mm kills.

With a .45 you just need one!