What to do with the 43,000 troops and dependents from Going Home?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The idea of transporting veterans from Europe, addressed here and there in Howling Wilderness, brings up some questions. We know from Howling Wilderness that some veterans reach 78th ID in New Jersey. We know some reach the Milgov command along the middle Mississippi. This fact rather strongly implies that the Navy still has some ability to move men and supplies along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards. I’ve always felt that the description of movement to New London, CT in The Last Submarine was overly dramatic. Fuel oil for small warships might be short, but surely the Navy would have gotten in the habit of “drafting” sailing vessels of all sizes fairly promptly after the TDM. Dropping a dozen men along the coast can’t be that hard for a sailing vessel (depending, of course, on the coast in question).

Once again I direct your attention to the mini-sourcebook A Rock in Troubled Waters in Challenge Magazine issue #42. It talks directly and in some detail about these issues, including land routes being used by MILGOV to move troops and materiel between Norfolk and the New Jersey enclave, and what fighting vessels MILGOV regularly operates up and down the east coast post-OMEGA.

It's a wealth of information on how MILGOV on the east coast organises things. There is some really good, specific info on the New Jersey enclave controlled by the 78th ID and also on the (really quite powerful) MILGOV assets operating out of Cape May Naval Base (formerly a USCG facility). The New Jersey State Militia is quite a powerful force and A Rock in Troubled Waters has pretty good descriptions of its size, capabilities and component units. The NJSG even has an armored rapid reaction force, the 2nd Cavalry Squadron, NJSG, 50 troopers operating 10 armored bank trucks. The article says "Under New Jersey law all males between the ages of 17 and 25 are liable for service in the state reserve militia, in the event the Governor declares an emergency. The NJSM will under no circumstances venture outside the state".

The Cape May Naval Base is an amazing hub of military might (from a T2K 2001 perspective). It would take me too long to manually type it all out here but let me give you some examples of the resources the MILGOV commander at Cape May has at his disposal:
* The USS Hyman Rickover (formerly the barkentine Gazela of Philadelphia, a sailing vesel with 3 tons of cargo capacity and mounting a 3"/54-cal pedestal-mounted deck gun, 2 x .50 cal HMGs, 2 x Mk19 AGLs and 2 x 81mm mortars;
* USS Bigelow (DD942);
* USS Confidence (WMEC 619);
* 1 X ocean going tug, 4 x inshore patrol craft (PCF), 2 x Cape May/Lewes ferries, 2 x LCM 6 (expedient monitors each armed with 1 x forward turret containing twin-20mm Vulcans, a 20mm or 25mm AC and a Mk19, a midship weapons "bucket" containing an 81mm mortar and a pair of 7.62mm MGs, and a rear turret armed with either twin .50 cal MGs or a 5.56mm minigun/Mk19 combo), 2 x LCM 6 (expedient armored troop carriers), 8 x patrol boats riverine (expedient, 4 with sail/motor and 4 with motor);
* 1 x 10,000-ton tanker (immobile);
* The Red Dragons, a mercenary group of 100 Chinese-American refugees who were formerly a Philadelphia street gang, trained by a cadre of ex-military members (this group is fiercely loyal to the Naval Commander at Cape May and are used as an amphibious strike group);
* Piseck Commando, 18 ex-SWAT members from the Philadelphia and New Jersey State Police (deployed as an amphibious commando unit reporting directly to the Naval Commander at Cape May);
* 301st Independent Battery, 80 ex-military "graybeards" recruited from among refugees who operate 3 x M202 howitzers and 6 x 120mm mortars salvaged from NG and AR armories (provides fire support for CMNB);
* B and C Flights, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 3 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes each rigged with a 7.62mm MG and 2 x Bell 47G (ex-cropduster) helicopters (it specifically states there is sufficient fuel to fly these aircraft for critical support missions) operating out of CMNB;
*HQ and A Flight, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 2 x P-3 Orions and 2 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes (the P-3s are unable to fly due to a lack of fuel but are in flyable condition).

I haven't included the extensive regular and militia ground forces at the CMNB commander's disposal.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I believe Going Home states there was enough fuel for a one way trip (could be wrong on that) and the ships engines would be effectively ruined by running on the crude, which to me means most of the organisation about who was going where occurred back in Germany. It seems unlikely everyone would go to Norfolk only to be processed and re-board ships with limited to non-existent fuel for another port. Just considering food and shelter requirements for some many people in one previously nuked place puts that idea firmly into the realm of fantasy.

It's true that there is very little fuel available for the larger naval vesels post-OMEGA. As well as USS Bigelow at CMNB, MILGOV operates USS Mamley (DD940) and USS Blandy (DD943) out of Norfolk post-OMEGA but A Rock in Troubled Waters does specifically state that they rarely put to sea due to a lack of fuel.

[Webstral]

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

I love the detail I’ve read so far. I love the thought process. I love that GDW has differentiated so distinctly between locales. New Jersey is a natural place for a large slice of the Omegamen to go.

Regarding shipping, I’m inclined to agree that dropping in excess of 40,000 troops in Virginia Beach over the course of a week may strain local supply. On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Webstral

On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

I'd say a fair bit of planning will already have been done. I'm sure much of the organisational work will have commenced months before the order was broadcast across Europe (ok, maybe it wouldn't really have started until the 5th ID was confirmed lost and XI Corp cut off, so lets say early to mid August?).
Sorting troops for their eventual destination in Germany is really the only way it can be done. Ship A goes here loaded with these people, Ship B there with those, etc. Late arrivals would be simply shoved onto a couple of ships assigned for the late arrivals and almost certainly sent to Norfolk for latter processing as you've said.

Originally Posted by Webstral

It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Works for me, however you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

...you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

I agree insofar as Gallatin, a 3250-ton cutter with a 76mm gun and other smaller armaments, has to be managed carefully in order not to upset the balance of things as given in The Last Submarine and “Rifle River”. Looking back through my notes, I see that I’ve addressed this concern already (and quite forgot about it). Gallatin serves as convoy escort to the movement of 70th Infantry Division to Europe in 1998. While in Europe, Gallatin and her squadron are diverted to Norway to intercept Soviet raiders on their way back to Soviet-held territory from Trondheim. During the fighting, Gallatin shares credit for sinking a Tarantul-class corvette and receives full credit for a Nanutchka. Gallatin takes multiple hits from enemy autocannon during the engagement. She makes the Atlantic crossing and spends more than a year in drydock and at anchor in Bath (Maine). Shortages of fuel keep her from participating in any but the most important missions after she is declared fit for service. Gallatin participates in two actions against “pirates” operating along the coast of the Maritime Provinces in late 1999. In spring 2000, she participates in a pre-OMEGA to withdraw American troops from Iceland. Gallatin has no more sea time until crossing the Atlantic to escort the OMEGA fleet to the US.

Fuel shortages and repairs should suffice to explain why the strongest naval combatant in New England is sidelined for most of the post-Exchange period through April 2001.

[Legbreaker]

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?

Straight fom the Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet...

"The US Coast Guard is a separate military service under the Department of Transportation. It is responsible for the enforcement of US laws in coastal waters and on the high seas subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In addition, since 1985, the Coast Guard has had coastal defense responsibilities for the US Atlantic coast and, since 1986, for the US Pacific coast."

"At the direction of the president, the Coast Guard can become part of the Navy (as during both world wars) or it can operate in a war zone while remaining an independent service (as happened in Korea and Vietnam)."

So the answer to your question really depends on what action the president took. But once the naval war started heating up, I'd expect the coasties would have gone "haze grey" rather quickly.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

There's no need to be modest. I greatly admire your work and I long ago decided to add your Thunder Empire and Silver Shogunate work lock, stock and barrel into my campaigns.

Originally Posted by Webstral

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Your Gallatin idea makes perfect sense. I've always wanted to incorporate your Poseidon’s Rifles work into my campaigns but I have been hesitant because I'm not sure where it would conflict with canon.for better or for worse, I personally always try not to contradict canon (each to their own though, that's just my personal preference). I'm happy to fill in the blanks in canon with new material though. If your Poseidon’s Rifles work reaches completion and doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

...doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

I'm in agreement with that as a general statement. Anybodies work which expands on the canon without contradicting it is likely to see use in my hands.