What to do with the 43,000 troops and dependents from Going Home?

[Webstral]

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

I love the detail I’ve read so far. I love the thought process. I love that GDW has differentiated so distinctly between locales. New Jersey is a natural place for a large slice of the Omegamen to go.

Regarding shipping, I’m inclined to agree that dropping in excess of 40,000 troops in Virginia Beach over the course of a week may strain local supply. On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Webstral

On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late… Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

I'd say a fair bit of planning will already have been done. I'm sure much of the organisational work will have commenced months before the order was broadcast across Europe (ok, maybe it wouldn't really have started until the 5th ID was confirmed lost and XI Corp cut off, so lets say early to mid August?).
Sorting troops for their eventual destination in Germany is really the only way it can be done. Ship A goes here loaded with these people, Ship B there with those, etc. Late arrivals would be simply shoved onto a couple of ships assigned for the late arrivals and almost certainly sent to Norfolk for latter processing as you've said.

Originally Posted by Webstral

It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Works for me, however you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

...you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

I agree insofar as Gallatin, a 3250-ton cutter with a 76mm gun and other smaller armaments, has to be managed carefully in order not to upset the balance of things as given in The Last Submarine and “Rifle River”. Looking back through my notes, I see that I’ve addressed this concern already (and quite forgot about it). Gallatin serves as convoy escort to the movement of 70th Infantry Division to Europe in 1998. While in Europe, Gallatin and her squadron are diverted to Norway to intercept Soviet raiders on their way back to Soviet-held territory from Trondheim. During the fighting, Gallatin shares credit for sinking a Tarantul-class corvette and receives full credit for a Nanutchka. Gallatin takes multiple hits from enemy autocannon during the engagement. She makes the Atlantic crossing and spends more than a year in drydock and at anchor in Bath (Maine). Shortages of fuel keep her from participating in any but the most important missions after she is declared fit for service. Gallatin participates in two actions against “pirates” operating along the coast of the Maritime Provinces in late 1999. In spring 2000, she participates in a pre-OMEGA to withdraw American troops from Iceland. Gallatin has no more sea time until crossing the Atlantic to escort the OMEGA fleet to the US.

Fuel shortages and repairs should suffice to explain why the strongest naval combatant in New England is sidelined for most of the post-Exchange period through April 2001.

[Legbreaker]

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?

Straight fom the Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet...

"The US Coast Guard is a separate military service under the Department of Transportation. It is responsible for the enforcement of US laws in coastal waters and on the high seas subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In addition, since 1985, the Coast Guard has had coastal defense responsibilities for the US Atlantic coast and, since 1986, for the US Pacific coast."

"At the direction of the president, the Coast Guard can become part of the Navy (as during both world wars) or it can operate in a war zone while remaining an independent service (as happened in Korea and Vietnam)."

So the answer to your question really depends on what action the president took. But once the naval war started heating up, I'd expect the coasties would have gone "haze grey" rather quickly.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

It is responsible for the enforcement of US laws in coastal waters and on the high seas subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In addition, since 1985, the Coast Guard has had coastal defense responsibilities for the US Atlantic coast and, since 1986, for the US Pacific coast."

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

Roles for a high endurance cutter will change from 1997 to 2000. With the destruction of so much of the world's tonnage and inability to put the remaining heavy ships to sea, lighter combatants that offer good fuel efficiency will have a place. For instance, while Gallatin does not carry her own missiles prior to the war, she is armed with a Phalanx CIWS and chaff launchers. Provided the electronics supporting the CIWS are working, Gallatin has a fair chance of surviving against a single inbound missile. During the fight I mentioned earlier, Gallatin is operating with other surface combatants against a squadron of light Soviet combatants. Missiles are in short supply. By sheer good fortune, the NATO group gets a targeting solution first and launch their available missiles. The Soviets reply, but the fast attack ships aren't carrying full complements of missiles. The exchange is unequal, and Gallatin is able to shoot down a single inbound SSM with her CIWS. Once the gunnery duel begins, the 76mm gun of Gallatin outranges the lighter autocannon of the Soviet corvettes. Gallatin takes some hits in the gunnery duel, but she is able to limp home with a kill-and-a-half to her credit.

Prior to the nuclear exchange, USCG vessels would be used for port security, search & rescue, and pretty much what they do today. They would be vulnerable to missile-armed Soviet warships and strike aircraft, so USCG vessels would have to be used for missions in which they either weren't exposed to these threats or operated as part of a larger group that could deal with these threats. After the nuclear exchange, all bets are off. This is why there are so few operational USCG vessels in 2001: they get used for everything and suffer high attrition as a result.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

WHEC-717 "Mellon" had been fitted with Harpoons and Mk-46 (including ASW suits) and successfully fired them. USCG cutters are obviously designed to receive additional weaponries. It is also almost certain that medium range cutters would also receive at least an ASW suits.

What roles: convoy and commerce escort, ASW patrol, manning of older ships and civilian vessels taken over to perform more traditional coast guard duties.

Of course, all of this depends on the US president decision but the Twilight War has nothing in common with either Korea or Vietnam. Unlike these two conflicts (or the current ongoing one), it directly threaten US sea lanes in a very substantial manner and from the beginning. Actually, USCG would probably perform escort and ASW missions as early as 1995 as they were in WW2 and by January 1996, they would probably be already collaborating with the Chinese in order to loosen the Soviet Navy grip over China Sea.

US ambassador at Moscow on February 6, 1996 "Of course, Yuri, we have been informed of the loss of your cruiser, the Sebastopol, and I want you to know that we present you with our condolences to the families of your sailors. Really was one of our High Sea Coast Guard Cutter invloved? I'm sorry to hear that but this ship was performing regular high sea patrols in the area and it must have inadvertently informed the Chinese of that cruiser of yours position. All our appologies and I can already ensure you that we were not actively involved as we were for KMS Bismarck, 50 years ago. Your KGB officers are overwhelimingly paranoy as usual...".

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

The Coasties use 5-inch/38s, 76mm/62 Compacts and 3-inch/50s for heavy armament, they also use Mark 19 40mm, Mark 67 20mm, .50-caliber and 7.62mm as well as a 81mm mortar/.50-caliber combo.

The high- and medium-endurance cutters are fitted with hull-mounted sonars and have space to have Mk32 324mm ASW torpedo tubes with Mark46 torpedoes. While their helos are normally unarmed, they have operated
SH-2F ASW helos.

Their defensive role is mostly as patrol craft with limited ASW capability (pretty much "Periscope to Starboard!" sort of thing; their sonars are Korean War vintage). Some of the Congressional Records mention the coasties having a convoy escort role, but flipping through some of the various books, I'm afraid that their role would be either as rescue ships or as targets for incoming missiles.

The vast majority of the USCG Fleet is harbor patrol/inland waterway patrol craft, better suited to chasing off enemy divers and explosive-laden speed boats.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like I’m patting myself on the back, it’s remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone?). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I don’t feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but it’s clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidon’s Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

There's no need to be modest. I greatly admire your work and I long ago decided to add your Thunder Empire and Silver Shogunate work lock, stock and barrel into my campaigns.

Originally Posted by Webstral

Here I go referring to my own work again… One of my struggles with Poseidon’s Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (“Rifle River?”). Very specifically, I’ve had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. It’s only years after I started writing Poseidon’s Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive?), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting… The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Your Gallatin idea makes perfect sense. I've always wanted to incorporate your Poseidon’s Rifles work into my campaigns but I have been hesitant because I'm not sure where it would conflict with canon.for better or for worse, I personally always try not to contradict canon (each to their own though, that's just my personal preference). I'm happy to fill in the blanks in canon with new material though. If your Poseidon’s Rifles work reaches completion and doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

...doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

I'm in agreement with that as a general statement. Anybodies work which expands on the canon without contradicting it is likely to see use in my hands.