Manchuria, China, and the Far Eastern Front

[dragoon500ly]

Of course, no discussion of the Far East can leave out the Republic of Korea (South Korea)...source is the Military Balance series.

Population: 39,400,000
Army: 540,000
2 mechanized infantry divisions (each of 3 bdes with a total of 3 mech, 3 mot inf
and 3 tank bns; a recon bn and a arty bde of three bns)
20 infantry divisions (each of three infantry regiments; 1 recon, 1 tank, and 1
engr bn and a arty group of 4 bns)
11 independent brigades: 3 airborne, 2 Special Forces, 1 Commando, 5 infantry
2 AA Arty bdes
2 SSM bns
2 SAM bdes
1 army aviation bde

1,200 M-47/M-48 MBTs
500 M-113 APCs
350 Fiat 6614 APCs
2,500 155mm SP, 175mm SP, 203mm SP, 105mm towed, 155mm towed,
203mm towed and 130mm MRLs
5,300 81mm and 107mm mortars
12 Honest John SSMs
255 76mm and 90mm towed antitank guns
3,200 57mm/75mm/90mm/106mm RCLs
66 Vulcan; 240 20mm and 40 40mm towed AA guns
110 HAWK SAMs
100 Nike Hercules SAMs
14 O-2A aircraft
100 UH-1B, 100 OH-6A, 25 Hughes 500MD, and 90 Scout helicopters
(on order are 38 M-109A2 SP 155mm; 500 TOW ATGM, 300 Stinger SAMs, 56 OH-6A and 25 Hughes 500MD)

Reserves:
Regular Army Reserves: 1,400,000 forming 23 infantry divisions and reinforcing active units.
Homeland Reserve Defense Force: 3,300,000

Navy: 29,000
11 destroyers (7 Gearing, 2 Sumner, 2 Fletcher)
8 frigates (1 Ulsan, 1 Rudderow, 6 Lawrence/Crosley)
3 Auk corvettes
11 FAC(M) (5 PSMM Mk5; 1 Asheville; 2 Kist)
8 large patrol craft
28 coastal patrol craft
8 coastal minesweepers
8 LST, 10 LSM, 6 LSU
(on order 1 d-e sub, 7 corvettes, 20 FAC(M))
Reserves: 25,000

Marines: 20,000
2 divisions
1 independent brigade
60 M-47, 80 LVTP-7
(on order 40 LVTP-7)
Reserves: 60,000

Air Force: 33,000
14 FGA sqns with 250 F-5A/B/E/F
4 FGA sqns with 70 F-86F and 6 A-10A
4 AD sqns with 70 F-4D/E
1 COIN sqn with 24 OV-10G, 8 A-37A
1 Recon sqn with 10 RF-5A
1 ASW sqn with 20 S-2A/F
1 ASW sqn with 10 Hughes 500MD helos
1 SAR sqn with 6 UH-1H, 20 UH-1B
5 tpt sqns with 10 C-54; 16 C-123J/K; 2 HS-748; 6 C-130H
Trainers include 20 T-28D, 40 T-33A, 14 T-37C, 20 T-41D, 35 F-5B, 64 F-5F
(on order 30 F-16A, 6 F-16B, 36 F-5E, 30 F-5F, 6 F-4D, 12 A-10A)
Reserves: 55,000

Paramilitary forces:
Civilian Defense Corps: 4,400,000
Student Homeland Defense Corps: 1,820,000

The current goal of the ROK is to maintain its independence in the face of the ever-present invasion threat from the DPRK (North Korea). Its secondary goal is to overthrow the DPRK regime and reunite the Korean peninsula under one government.

With the current support of the DPRK by Red China and the Soviet Union, and the ROK support from the United States has left the two Koreas in an uneasy deadlock which neither side dares to break.

The ROK's chief strategic vulnerability is the proximity of all ROK targets, including most of its heavy industry and population centers to air attacks from the DPRK, Red China and the Soviet Union. Second is the vulnerability of the ROK to ground infiltration or attack from the north. The ROK maintains a high level of security against the DPRK's infiltration and sabotage. In view of the strong anticommunism of the majority of South Koreans and their general support for the ROK government, there is no likelihood of indigenous guerrilla warfare. With continued US military commitment and the maintenance of a strong ROK defense structure, the chances of an all-out attack from the DPRK are slight. Should the Korean War be renewed, there is little possibility of either side mounting a quick knockout blow.

The United States maintains military advisory groups in Korea which equip and train all four ROK services. Most ROK units are under the operational control of the United Nations Command, which is Korea's senior military headquarters. The UN Commander is also the commander of the US Eighth Army. The US maintains an infantry division, an artillery brigade and various support units as well as an air wing stationed in Korea and another stationed in Okinawa. The US Seventh Fleet also maintains a carrier task force in the area.

The US and the ROK have a Mutual Defense Treaty.

[Targan]

Wow, per capita of population the ROK has an amazing amount of military manpower. I suppose if Kim Jong-Il was my neighbor I'd be hell bent on maintaining my military muscle too.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow, per capita of population the ROK has an amazing amount of military manpower. I suppose if Kim Jong-Il was my neighbor I'd be hell bent on maintaining my military muscle too.

This is one of the things that has the West up in arms over the DPRK's nuclear program. In a conventional war, the DPRK has to have the support of the Soviet Union and Red China, giving the twilight wars ill-feeling between these two powers, the DPRK's dream of uniting the Korean peninsula is simply not going to happen.

A DPRK with a series of nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them upsets the entire balance of power..and just wait until they develop a missile that can reach the West Coast of the US.

[dragoon500ly]

And once again....here is the "other" China and a big thanks to the Military Balance series!

The Republic of China
Population: 18,500,000
Army: 310,000
12 heavy infantry divisions
6 light infantry divisions
6 armd/inf bdes
3 airbonre bdes
4 tank groups
20 field artillery battalions
5 SAM battalions
6 army aviation squadrons

310 M-48 MBT
325 M-24 (upgraded to 90mm gun) light tanks
795 M-41 light tanks
100 M-8 armd cars
150 M-3 half-tracks
1,100 M-113 APCs
150 V-150 Commando APCs
300 M-59 155mm towed hows; 350 M-116 75mm towed pack hows; 550
M-101 105mm towed hows; 90 M-114 towed 155mm hows; 10 M-115 towed
203mm hows; 225 M-108 SP 105mm hows; 125 M-109A1 SP 155mm hows;
75 M-110 SP 203mm hows
1,200 81mm mortars
300 towed and SP 127mm MRLs
150 M-18 tank destroyers
500 106mm RCLs
400 Kun Wu (TOW clone) ATGMs
300 40mm AA guns
400 Nike Hercules SAMs (missiles only)
800 HAWK SAMs (missiles only)
20 Chaparral SAMs
118 UH-1H helo
2 KH-4 helo
7 CH-34 helo
??? Hsiung Feng coastal defence SSM (copy of Gabriel SSM)
??? Ching Feng coastal defence SSM (copy of Nike Hercules)
(on order 164 M-113 APC; 125 M-109A1 SP 155mm hows; 75 M-110 SP 203mm hows; 1,000 TOW ATGM; 370 IHAWK SAMs)

Reserves: 1,500,000 forming 9 additional infantry divisions; an additional 1,300,000 have reserve obligations of some kind)

Navy: 38,000
2 d-e subs, US Guppy II-class
24 destroyers: 11 Gearing; 1 Gearing radar picket; 8 Sumner; 4 Fletcher
9 frigates: 8 Lawrence, 1 Crosley
3 corvettes
28 FAC(M)
5 FAC(T)
28 coastal patrol craft
12 ex US Adjutant and 268 coastal MCM
2 LSD, 23 LST, 4 LSM, 22 LCU, 400 LCVP
1 repair ship
2 transports
7 tankers
(on order, 2 Zwaardvis-class d-e subs; 6 FAC(M))

Reserves: 45,000

Marines: 39,000
3 divisions
200 LVT-4/-5 APCs
125 105mm towed hows
48 155mm towed hows
200 106mm RCLs

Reserves: 35,000

Air Force: 77,000
9 FGA sqns with 82 F-5A, 226 F-5E and 22 F-5F
2 FGA sqns with 42 F-100A/D
2 FGA sqns with 40 F-104D/G
1 interceptor sqn with 19 F-104A
1 recon sqn with 4 RF-104G
1 MR sqn with 9 S-2A, 30 S-2E
1 ASW hel sqn with 12 Hughes 500MD
1 SAR sqn with 8 HU-16B ac, 10 UH-1H helo
6 tpt sqns with 30 C-47, 5 C-54, 1 C-118B, 59 C-119, 10 C-123, 1 Boeing
720B
Trainers include 55 PL-1B, 32 T-33A, 30 T-28, 20 F-5B/F, 68 TF-104G, 6
F-104D, 12 F-100F
2 hel sqns with 7 UH-19, 10 Bell 47G
(on order 60 F-5E/F)

Reserves: 90,000

Paramilitary Forces: Taiwan Garrison Command: 25,000

While the eventual return to the mainland is the stated goal of the ROC, the prospects of accomplishing this by classical invasion decrease. The ROC now emphasizes the capability of fast-moving special units that can reach the mainland and cooperate with anti-Communist or non-Communist risings against the Peking regime. This would take place in a time of turbulence and internal strife on the mainland and would be the first step in the reunion of all CHina under Nationalist leadership.

Meantime, attention goes to the assurance of economic progress and the maintenance of strong armed forces which, while they now seem to be oriented toward effective defense, would be able to act offensively under proper conditions. The defense costs borne and the commitments made testify to the realism of the Nationalist view.

The strategic problem facing the ROC is massive in size, but straightforward. There is only one enemy and only one national policy goal. The governments in Taipei and Peking agree that there is only one China, of which Taiwan is a part. The US acknowledged the existence of this condition in the Shanghai Communique, issued at the end of the Nixon visit to the mainland in 1972 and reaffirmed when the US officially recognized the Peking government in 1978. Taipei now enjoys full recognition from fewer than twenty nations, and this number is decreasing.

In essence, there exists an unfinished civil war. The Nationalists have stated that their goal is the recovery of the mainland. The Peking government has stated that their goal is the recapture of their wayward island.

Obviously, the abrupt withdrawal of US diplomatic recognition of Taiwan in December 1978 shocked Nationalist leaders. President Carter also announced the withdrawal of US troops from the island and abrogation of the Mutual Defense Treaty of 1955. Peking insists that the settlement of the Taiwan problem is a purely Chinese matter and has made no open commitment not to use force. The US has implied however, that there is a tacit understanding to this effect. American officials have also stated that the sale of certain weapons to Taipei would continue. The Communist leaders have not accepted this condition, but have not allowed the American statements to stand in the way of the new relationship with the US.

Under the circumstances, the Nationalists strive to maintain and improve their military forces. They have stated that they will not negotiate with Peking, nor will they seek help from the Soviet Union. This latter course is not without its attractions, not least of which is is that this exposes the PRC to the threat of a major two-front conflict.

Taipei's determination to retain control over the offshore islands---the Quemoy and Matsu groups---has posed a major strategic problem for the Nationalists. Their determination, a strongly fortified position and extensive American assistance have combined to maintain ROC control of the islands. This was accomplished despite repeated and massive bombardments and numerous threats of Communist offensives. The political importance of the islands lies in the fact that the Nationalists still hold more than one province (the islands are part of Fukien Province). The islands also have strategic value, particularly Quemoy, which controls entry to the port of Amoy and sea traffic in the area.

Moving to more specific strategic problems, the Nationalists face a mainland army that, despite its backwardness, is very large. The problems if maintaining an acceptable air situation are paramount. Neither side has the naval capability to execute a sizable amphibious or airborne assault on the other without previous attrition operations of considerable magnitude.

The narrow width of the island of Taiwan poses a significant defense problem. Taiwan's military planners recognize and prepare to cope with this situation. Air bases, all on the west coast, may be subjected to saturation attacks from the mainland, but hardened shelters, modern air-to-air weapons and superior aircraft promise a very costly undertaking for the PRC. All-in-all neither side has the ability to project offensive power.

The only full alliance of the ROC has been the Mutual Security Treaty with the US. In the past, the US has availed itself of the treaty and collateral agreements to base air force units on Taiwan and to use the naval facilities there. Intelligence sharing has been routine and the ROC has been supplied with U-2 aircraft for extended reconnaissance. Several important US communications facilities have been maintained. The island served as a major forward supply and support base for American forces during the Vietnam War. At the war's peak, some 9,000 US troops were stationed in Taiwan. The US declined offers of ROC military participation during the Vietnam War, as it had done during the Korean War. However several ROC civic action groups worked in South Vietnam, assisting the government in rural development programs. All such arrangements are now terminated.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

This is one of the things that has the West up in arms over the DPRK's nuclear program. In a conventional war, the DPRK has to have the support of the Soviet Union and Red China, giving the twilight wars ill-feeling between these two powers, the DPRK's dream of uniting the Korean peninsula is simply not going to happen.

I personally don't think they'll have the support of China or Russia (assuming we're not talking T2K here -- in T2K, the DPRK's nuclear program would be in its infancy) in real life. China has condemned the DPRK's actions, many times over the past few years, and they don't want refugees from the North in China -- to the point of often shooting those who try to cross illegally. The Russians -- they may give material support, but their support for the DPRK has been waning the past decade -- the DPRK doesn't have enough cash or resources to keep Russia interested. The ROKs actually have more up-to-date Russian-built equipment and vehicles in some cases.

[pmulcahy11b]

The Military Balance Series -- is it a set of books or a web site? Or a magazine series? Sounds interesting.

[dragoon500ly]

It was a series of at least 4 books by Trevor Dupuy, they have been out of print since the 1990s. I'm lucky enough to own the 1982 and 1984 versions.

Another good one the Almanac of World Military Power, also by Dupuy, there are supposed to be at least two books in this series, I own the 1980 version.

I have no idea if they are available on any web site, and I haven't seen them available through Amazon or eBay, at least not yet.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I personally don't think they'll have the support of China or Russia (assuming we're not talking T2K here -- in T2K, the DPRK's nuclear program would be in its infancy) in real life. China has condemned the DPRK's actions, many times over the past few years, and they don't want refugees from the North in China -- to the point of often shooting those who try to cross illegally. The Russians -- they may give material support, but their support for the DPRK has been waning the past decade -- the DPRK doesn't have enough cash or resources to keep Russia interested. The ROKs actually have more up-to-date Russian-built equipment and vehicles in some cases.

IRL, the DPRK has almost no chance of knocking out the ROKs, conventional or nuclear (as long as the US maintains a presence in the south). But it is interesting to read about the balancing act that the north has to maintain to avoid falling under control of the Sino/Soviets. It almost makes one wonder if WWIII did break out, will the DPRK simply declare itself neutral?

But canon has the north invading the south...

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

But it is interesting to read about the balancing act that the north has to maintain to avoid falling under control of the Sino/Soviets. It almost makes one wonder if WWIII did break out, will the DPRK simply declare itself neutral?

But canon has the north invading the south...

It's hard to imagine the Kims not taking the chance to retake the South, feasible or otherwise. With American troops engaged in Europe, Korea will never get another such chance. Surely the USSR would promise something to the DPRK to get Red Koreans crossing the border.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Webstral

It's hard to imagine the Kims not taking the chance to retake the South, feasible or otherwise. With American troops engaged in Europe, Korea will never get another such chance. Surely the USSR would promise something to the DPRK to get Red Koreans crossing the border.

True, but one can almost see the Kims taking a neutral course, at least until the super powers were no longer able to intervene and then striking when the South least expects it. Especially if they can get their hands on some nuclear warheads for their FROGs. But its just idle musing.

IRL, the Kims are fully capable of convincing themselves that the time is right for the long awaited liberation of the South ala Red Phoenix.

[dragoon500ly]

Here is another on the Far East....Japan....the source is the Military Balance series

Population: 119,400,000
Army: 156,000
1 armored division
12 infantry divisions (maintained at 7-9,000 personnel)
2 composite brigades
1 airborne brigade
1 artillery brigade
2 artillery groups
8 SAM groups
5 engineer brigades
1 helicopter brigade (2 bns)
5 helicopter groups (total of 24 sqns/dets)

560 Type 61 MBT
390 Type 74 MBT
425 Type 60 APC
115 Type 73 APC
380 towed 105mm hows
330 towed 155mm and Type 74 and 75 SP hows
70 towed 203mm guns and hows
50 Type 30 SSM
800 81mm mortars
560 107mm mortars
40 Type 75 SP 130mm MRLs
1,400 75mm/Carl Gustav 84mm/105mm RCLs
240 Type 64 ATGM
25 Type 79 ATGM
170 35mm twin, 37mm, 40mm and 75mm AA Guns (some SP)
144 HAWK SAMs
84 IHAWK SAMs
20 LR-1 ac
2 TL-1 ac
10 L-19 ac
2 AH-1S helo
56 KV-107 helo
80 UH-1H helo
65 UH-1B helo
36 TH-55 helo
139 OH-6D/J helo
(on order 84 Type 74 MBT, 9 Type 73 APC, 34 Type 75 155mm, 19 M-110A2 203mm SP, 8 Type 75 SP 130mm MRLs, 9 Type 79 ATGM, 221 Carl Gustav RCL, 49 Stinger, 8 Type 81 SAM, 48 IHAWK, 1 LR-1 ac, 6 OH-6D, 5 UH-1H, 12 AH-1S)
Reserves: 41,000

Navy: 42,000
14 d-e subs (4 Yushio, 7 Uzushio, 3 Asashio)
31 destroyers (2 Shirane, 2 Haruna, 2 Hatsuyuki, 3 Tachikaze, 1 Amatsukaze,
4 Takatsuki, 6 Yamagumo, 3 Minegumo, 3 Murasame, 3 Ayanami)
17 frigates (1 Yubari, 1 Ishikari, 11 Chikugo)
5 large patrol craft
5 FAC(T)
3 MCM support ships
31 coastal minesweepers
6 LST, 2 LSO, 37 LCVP
8 Maritime Recon sqns with 6 P-3C, 58 P-2J, 13 S2F-1, 16 PS-1
6 ASW Helo sqns with 55 HSS-2
1 MCM helo sqn with 7 KV-107
1 tpt sqn with 4 YS-11M, 1 B-65
1 utility sqn with 3 UP-2J
7 SAR flights with 8 US-1 ac; 6 S-61A, 8 S-62B helos
(on order 3 Yushio subs; 1 Hatsuyuki DD; 1 Yubari frigate; 2 MCM ships; 17 P-3C, 2 KM-2, 3 TC-90 ac, 14 HSS-2B, 5 S-61A, 20 H-6D helos)
Reserves: 600

Air Force: 43,000
3 FGA sqns with 56 F-1
1 interceptor sqn with 20 F-15J/DJ
6 interceptor sqns with 112 F-4EJ
3 interceptor sqns with 61 F-104J
1 recon sqn with 12 RF-4EJ
3 tpt sqns with 25 C-1, 6 YS-11
9 SAR detachments with 29 KV-107
10 training sqns with 40 T-1A/B, 59 T-2, 44 T-3, 50 T-33A
19 SAM sqns with 180 Nike-J SAMs
(on order 51 F-15J, 6 F-15DJ, 5 F-1, 4 C-130H, 12 T-2, 6 E-2C AEW)

Japan's basic military policy is to assure its independence and territorial integrity by the maintenance of forces solely for defensive purposes. It maintains a mutual security treaty with the US.

Unique among nations, the Japanese Constitution rejects war or the threat of armed force as instruments of national policy. This viewpoint also reflects the majority of Japanese citizens.

The members of the Japanese Self Defense Forces are considered to be civil servants; there is no separate military legal authority such as is found in the armed forces of practically every other nation in the world. Crimes or offenses committed by Japanese military personnel are tried in civilian courts.

Consistent with its general policy and also reflecting its experience as the only nation to have ever suffered a nuclear attack, Japan refuses to consider the development of nuclear weapons and does not allow the positioning of nuclear weapons on its soil.

Japan' greatest strategic weakness is its lack of material natural resources. Save for coal, Japan is dependent upon imports for all of the raw materials required for its industry. During the oil embargo of 1973, Japan was hard hit (42% of its oil comes from the Middle East) and the steep rise in oil prices threatens Japan's economic position. Japan is particularly concerned about maintaining a friendly situation in South Korea and is uneasy about the possibility that US troops will be withdrawn.

Another vulnerability is the concentration of the Japanese population and its industry, this concentration was a major factor in the US strategic bombing of Japan during WWII. The Japanese heartland is within easy range of air and missile bases in Siberia, North Korea and Red China, to say nothing of missile submarines.

Japan's only foreign alliance is its Treat of Mutual Cooperation and Security with the US. This treaty provides for military assistance as well as the maintenance of a number of bases that were originally established in the post-WWII era. In 1970, Japan announced its intention to continue the treaty in force indefinitely.

[kota1342000]

Outstanding Dragon. Does the series have anything about Indonesia?

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by kota1342000

Outstanding Dragon. Does the series have anything about Indonesia?

Per your request and the source is the Military Balance series....

Indonesia at the start of the twilight war...

Population: 160,000,000
Army: 210,000
1 armd cav bde (listed as comprised of 10 armd cav bns....)
13 infantry bdes totaling 39 infantry bns
2 airborne bdes with 6 AB bns
1 field artillery regiment
4 Special Warfare Groups
14 independent field artillery bns
10 independent AA artillery bns
2 construction regiments (4 bns)
8 field engineer battalions
37 independent infantry battalions
Marine Transport
Army Aviation with 1 composite sqn and 1 helo sqn

93 AMX-13 light tanks
41 PT-76 light tanks
75 Saladin armd cars
60 Ferret scout cars
200 AMX-VCI APC
60 Saracen APC
60 V-150 Commando APC
100 BTR-40/-152 APCs
170 76mm guns
28 105mm hows
480 81mm/82mm mortars
480 90mm/106mm RCLs
20 20mm AA guns
90 40mm AA guns
200 57mm AA guns
2 Aero Commander 680 ac
1 Beech 18 ac
6 Bell 205 helo
2 Alouette III helo
16 BO-105 helo
1 LST, 20 LCU, 14 smaller tpt ships (unk types)
(on order 120 105mm hows, 6 Bell 212 helo, 26 Super Puma helos)
Reserves: 19,000

Navy: 42,000 including naval air and marines
3 d-e subs (2 Ger Type 209, 1 Sov W-class)
9 frigates
14 large patrol craft
4 FAC(M)
2 FAC(T)
1 Hydrofoil
8 coastal patrol craft
3 ocean minesweepers
2 minehunters
1 spt ship
13 LST, 3 LCU, 38 LCM
In reserve: 1 frigate, 2 large patrol craft, 2 coastal minesweepers, 1 spt ship
Naval Air: 1,000
1 ASW helo sqn with 10 Wasp
2 MR sqns with 8 Nomad N-22B
other ac incl 6 C-47, 3 Aero Commander, 4 Bell 47G helo, 1 Alouette II helo, 4 BO-105 helo
Marines: 12,000
2 infantry regiments
30 PT-76 light tanks
12 VPX-10 PAC 90 armd cars
38 AMX-10P APCs
(on order 28 VPX-10 PAC 90, 19 AMX-10P, 26 Super Puma helo)

Air Force: 29,000
2 FGA sqns with 27 A-4E, 4 TA-4H
2 interceptor sqns with 11 F-5E, 4 F-5F
1 COIN sqn with 15 OV-10F
1 MR sqn with 1 C-130H, 1 Boeing 737-200, 5 HU-16
3 tpt sqns with 21 C-130H, 1 L-100-30, 1 C-140 Jetstar, 7 C-47, 1 SC-7
Skyvan, 8 F-27, 2 C-212 and 1 Boeing 707
1 liaison sqn with 12 Cessna 207/401/402
1 helo sqn with 5 Bell 204B, 12 Puma, 12 Bell B-47G, 12 Hughes 500, 6 BO-105
1 training sqn with 15 T-34CL, 8 Hawk T-53, 20 AS-202
(on order 2 Boeing 737-200, 32 CN-235, 9 T-34C1, 5 Hawk ac, 7 Puma helo)

Paramilitary forces:
Police Mobile Brigade: 12,000
Militia: est at 70,000
Civil Defense Force: millions registered

The so-called New Order government took power in 1966, following a bloody coup in October 1965 that ousted the Communist-dominated governemnt of President Sukarno. The Sukarno government had been engaged in a confrontation with Malaysia before the coup and was strongly anti-Western. The new government, under President Suharto conducted massacres of Communists and persons suspected of Communist sympathies and established friendly relations with Malaysia, and emphasized economic recovery and stability at home.

Relations with Malaysia remain warm and the two nations are working together to standardize their common language. Relations with Singapore are correct and are becoming more cordial. At the same time, the government's anti-Communist stance is softening to the extent that relations with the Soviet Union are more friendly, and Indonesia has been receiving economic aid.

There are still a few hard-core Communists in Indonesia but recent intelligence estimates suggests only about 1,000 members and about 100 activists; before the 1965 coup, membership was estimated at 1,500,000. Communists are still of concern to the government. Diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China were to have been established in 1977/78, but China's approaches to Indonesian Communists delayed this move. When East Timor was promised independence by Portugal and civil war broke out there in 1975, Indonesia intervened military with "volunteers". Fear of East Timor as a base and refuge for Indonesian Communists, always strong in nearby Java is believed to be the primary reason for Indonesia's intervention. In July 1976, East Timor became Indonesia's 27th provience, a move opposed by Australia, concerned over Indonesian expansion.

The South Moluccan separatists, who have carried out terrorist actions in the Netherlands, have been relatively quiet in Indonesia. There is a West New Guinea liberation movement carrying out sporadic guerrilla activities aimed at ousting Indonesia from that province, officially called Irian Barat. Papua New Guinea, an independent country, formally under Australian mandate, occupies the other half of the island of New Guinea.

Between 1958 and 1965, Indonesia received some $1.2 billion in Soviet military aid. The navy and air force are still almost entirely equipped with Soviet craft, but much of this is nearing the end of its useful life. Until 1965, a Soviet military technical mission was stationed in Indonesia. Since the 1965 coup, no new weapons have been provided although the purchase of limited quantities of spare parts was allowed.

The US resumed a limited military aid program in 1967, this program had been suspended in 1965 in protest over President Sukarno's "Crush Malaysia" policy. From 1955 to 1977, US aid under MAP has totaled $165 million.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

12 Honest John SSMs

Aren't all of these 1 Kiloton nuclear warheads?

Kinda favors the south doesn't it.

The 203mm can throw a 1 kt nuke but, I am sure the honest John only had one warhead type.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Aren't all of these 1 Kiloton nuclear warheads?

Kinda favors the south doesn't it.

The 203mm can throw a 1 kt nuke but, I am sure the honest John only had one warhead type.

Near as I can figure out, if there are any nuke warheads, then they are under US control. The Honest Johns were supposed to have been deactivated in the 1992-1994 period, but, I've also heard that the ROKs have developed a HE warhead, but again, I've not seen anything concrete about that.