T2K Wound Rules

[Odie]

Hey guys,

Tried posted this once but it did not seem to stick. So if this is a second post. I am sorry.

I am trying to get clarification on some wound rules. The 2nd edition rules state that a slightly wounded character has their Initiative reduced by 1. Serious and critical wounds state that if your init drops to 0 you can not act for the rest of the combat. So my question is, if you have a character with an init of 1 that is slightly wounded does his init drop to 0 and is now out of the combat? This seems kind of harsh for a slight wound.

Thanks,
Kevin

[leonpoi]

That's how I've always done it. My take is that a init 1 character is about as green as you get - a civilian - and will be out of the fight due to shock or panic if anything goes wrong.

A int 1 PC will be init 2 in no time after a few fights even if you use the init squared approach for advancement (would be 1-2 fights to get to init 2).

[Odie]

Ok that does make sense. Thanks!!

[Targan]

Wow, that's harsh. Green character starts to show signs of panic at impending enemy contact, superior officer grabs him by the shirt front, says loudly "Get a hold of yourself, man!" and backhands him across the face, drawing a tiny spot of blood as his West point ring catches the green soldier's cheek. The now (slightly wounded) FNG is out of the rest of the firefight, clawing feebly at the mud in the bottom of his foxhole and fighting to retain bladder control.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow, that's harsh. Green character starts to show signs of panic at impending enemy contact, superior officer grabs him by the shirt front, says loudly "Get a hold of yourself, man!" and backhands him across the face, drawing a tiny spot of blood as his West point ring catches the green soldier's cheek. The now (slightly wounded) FNG is out of the rest of the firefight, clawing feebly at the mud in the bottom of his foxhole and fighting to retain bladder control.

just goes to show - leadership is a critical skill wwhen handling npcs in a firefight

I wouldnt give the PC 1 hp for a smack on the face though - in my book a slap is more like 0 hp. ( Considering a pistol bullet can give you 1D damage - from 1 hp and up, rating a slap as a "1 hp" is harsh.)

We have always let our tenderfoot-greenhorns-cherry-fngs quit the action screaming and sobbing if they are slightly wounded and go to init. 0. Sometimes this is downright lethal if they get caught in the fire in a fetal position.

Moral of my tale is - if your char is an init 1 type guy - act the sissy you are until the char is hardened in combat. ( It doesnt mean youcant play - only that you hang back and spray/pray rather than advance tacticooly and double tap all enemy center mass whilst huming a popular tune or making cool comments underway. ( more like a 5 or 6 imho )

anyhow - just my take.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow, that's harsh. Green character starts to show signs of panic at impending enemy contact, superior officer grabs him by the shirt front, says loudly "Get a hold of yourself, man!" and backhands him across the face, drawing a tiny spot of blood as his West point ring catches the green soldier's cheek. The now (slightly wounded) FNG is out of the rest of the firefight, clawing feebly at the mud in the bottom of his foxhole and fighting to retain bladder control.

just goes to show - leadership is a critical skill wwhen handling npcs in a firefight

I wouldnt give the PC 1 hp for a smack on the face though - in my book a slap is more like 0 hp. ( Considering a pistol bullet can give you 1D damage - from 1 hp and up, rating a slap as a "1 hp" is harsh.)

We have always let our tenderfoot-greenhorns-cherry-fngs quit the action screaming and sobbing if they are slightly wounded and go to init. 0. Sometimes this is downright lethal if they get caught in the fire in a fetal position.

Moral of my tale is - if your char is an init 1 type guy - act the sissy you are until the char is hardened in combat. ( It doesnt mean youcant play - only that you hang back and spray/pray rather than advance tacticooly and double tap all enemy center mass whilst huming a popular tune or making cool comments underway. ( more like a 5 or 6 imho )

anyhow - just my take.

[kota1342000]

For characters with a initiative of 1 and a slight wound, I fall back on having the player make constitution rolls when he or she wanted to act. The difficulty of the roll depended on the complexity or "bravery" of the action in question.

..and when the rule REALLY got in the way of play, Id throw it out the window.

[Legbreaker]

This is where "scratch" wounds come into play (in V2.x). If a character suffers a wound less than half their hit capacity for the location, and it's the first wound of the day, they are only "scratched". They loose only their next action from the shock of suddenly being wounded, then go on as normal - no reduction to Initiative.
However, if they suffer a second scratch wound, they are treated as slightly wounded and drop a point of Initiative.

As always, it's a good idea to stay in cover as much as possible and not get hit in the first place. Running about like Rambo will get a character killed in very short order. I'm actually rather surprised there weren't more killed in Libya from that sort of behaviour.

[leonpoi]

Originally Posted by Targan

Wow, that's harsh. Green character starts to show signs of panic at impending enemy contact, superior officer grabs him by the shirt front, says loudly "Get a hold of yourself, man!" and backhands him across the face, drawing a tiny spot of blood as his West point ring catches the green soldier's cheek. The now (slightly wounded) FNG is out of the rest of the firefight, clawing feebly at the mud in the bottom of his foxhole and fighting to retain bladder control.

Correct - a slight wound is half to all of hit points lost on a body part so it's not an insignificant injury. As legbreaker points out a "scratch" is anything less than half hits lost.

[Odie]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Ok here is another question.

At some point a would is going to be significant enough to start losing blood. Does anyone have any rules regarding that?

Also I found some rules that were modified to work with Traveller The New Era. It is called "Snapshot". I believe it was written originally for miniature rules. I have thought about trying to use these in a game. Just on a trial basis initially. I like it because your characters have action points that they spend for their turn. The recieve points based on their CON AGL and INIT. I like it also because not all character have the same move rate since they have to pend action points. ANY WAY, I am just wondering if anyone has used something similar and how well it works.

[Legbreaker]

V1.0 has a comparable system in it's Coolness Under Fire initiative. Each character has to sit on their hands for a set number of actions in each 30 second period.

Another system would be that used in Leading Edge's "Phoenix Command" (Living Steel, Aliens, Lawnmower Man, Dracula). In those games the number of actions a character has is based on their primary stats combined with combat skills. EVERYTHING costs action points, even if it's just turning 60 degrees, or moving 6 feet forward.

The T2K V1.0 method is relatively simple, however it does run into problems with tracking more than a handful of participants in a combat (there's a note in the back of the 2.0 BYB I believe on this).
The Leading Edge system is amazingly accurate, but the paperwork is a killer. Keeping track of more than a couple of characters is near impossible without computer help (especially since the actual firing and damage calculations are even more complex). Very hard to walk AND chew gum with it.

With regard to wound severity and blood loss, the existing rules in V1.0, and 2.x would appear to cover that fairly nicely without bogging things down in detail. Once a character receives more damage than their hit capacity, the wound status goes up one with the corresponding detrimental effects. When a wound goes critical, there's a good chance of death unless medical attention is received within 10 minutes.

So, while there are "better" wound systems, you have to weigh up playability as well.

[headquarters]

I humbly offer something to the matter of bloodloss

http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/DOX/0-House%20rules/

the rules are pretty harsh, but I like them.

Originally Posted by Odie

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Ok here is another question.

At some point a would is going to be significant enough to start losing blood. Does anyone have any rules regarding that?

Also I found some rules that were modified to work with Traveller The New Era. It is called "Snapshot". I believe it was written originally for miniature rules. I have thought about trying to use these in a game. Just on a trial basis initially. I like it because your characters have action points that they spend for their turn. The recieve points based on their CON AGL and INIT. I like it also because not all character have the same move rate since they have to pend action points. ANY WAY, I am just wondering if anyone has used something similar and how well it works.

[Targan]

I converted Twilight:2000 to the Gunmaster system. Very crunchy, but then I admit that my players and I are hopeless detail junkies. I ran a very successful campaign for many years using Gunmaster. Never managed to attract anyone on these forums to that system, however. I think the awesomeness of the system intimidates and afears those of weak heart and limited fortitude

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Targan

I converted Twilight:2000 to the Gunmaster system. Very crunchy, but then I admit that my players and I are hopeless detail junkies. I ran a very successful campaign for many years using Gunmaster. Never managed to attract anyone on these forums to that system, however. I think the awesomeness of the system intimidates and afears those of weak heart and limited fortitude

GunMaster, from HarnMaster, from some mad, number junkies' beautiful but terrible dream...
Too many numbers for me
I can only count to 10 or up to 20 if I take my shoes & socks off.
I can even get to 21 if I take my pants off but that still aint enough for Math... err, GunMaster...

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Targan

I converted Twilight:2000 to the Gunmaster system. Very crunchy, but then I admit that my players and I are hopeless detail junkies. I ran a very successful campaign for many years using Gunmaster. Never managed to attract anyone on these forums to that system, however. I think the awesomeness of the system intimidates and afears those of weak heart and limited fortitude

I've never seen the Gunmaster system. Is this a published system?

Thanks for any info.

Mahatatain.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

I've never seen the Gunmaster system. Is this a published system?

Thanks for any info.

Mahatatain.

Gunmaster is an unofficial modern combat add-on for the Harnmaster system. You need at least one of the various editions of Hasrnmaster to be able to use Gunmaster. Gunmaster is available for free at www.warflail.com, in the section "Bill Gant's HârnMaster House Rules".

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Targan

Gunmaster is an unofficial modern combat add-on for the Harnmaster system. You need at least one of the various editions of Hasrnmaster to be able to use Gunmaster. Gunmaster is available for free at www.warflail.com, in the section "Bill Gant's HârnMaster House Rules".

Thanks for this link - I will check it out. My memory is of HarnMaster having quite clunky rules but that was years ago. The Harn setting was/is fantastic though!

[pmulcahy11b]

Of course, a character with an init of one might just be a coward...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Of course, a character with an init of one might just be a coward...

Or smart enough to keep the hell out of the way of incoming bullets!

[rnitze]

Well,
I tend to track wounds in general but honestly i go for the shock of modern war effect... my games are not campaigns, they're 4-hour bloodfests where players do not expect to survive... case in point... Mk19 gunner hit by PTRS-41 anti-tank rifle 14.5mm AP round.... splat! Gruesome flopping corpse with huge hole thru flak vest and torso and back of flak vest... or RPG effects. Panic is not even necessary to roll when the escorting Hmmwv called by the players "The Meat Wagon" is trapped in a kill zone dominated by AK/RPK gunners in the tall grass at 50-75m, an RPG team at 100m behind a berm, 20-some riflemen in a forest using trees as cover, and that aforementioned PTRS taking out the damned gunners on the Mk19. Add that the drivers head explodes all over the interior compartment in a hail of gunfire and his dead corpse foot death locks in the gas pedal... into kill zone 2... with awaiting RPG impacts. I mean they live long enough (usually) to experience the terror... (wink)

[rnitze]

OK so I run mostly 4-hour T2k games at the Origins gaming convention..... (May/June 2011) ... simply put, i kill and maim the characters so much they rarely have time to worry bleeding in lieu of how they died...
Case in point: in an ambush on medical supplies convoy in Eastern Germany: I killed the gunner on the Up-armored escort HMMWV with PTRS-41 14.5mm Anti-Tank bullet.... thru the gunshield and flak vest... was messy, then the other 50-60 ex die hard commie not pissed off disowned eastern german marauders in the hillside and tall grass started pounding rounds into the lead vehicle and the PTRS started punching holes into the next vehicle in line. Lead vehicle got the nickname "the Meat Wagon" from the players...

I threw actual spent 7.62mm Rimmed and Tokarev rounds on the table to simulate the nastyness... the poor tail deuce-and-a-half had a guy run up to drivers door and spray a clip of PPS-43 7.62mm Tokarev AP rounds in the door... it was a messy way to go, he did live long enuf to scream and gurgle tho... veh commander couldn't fire back due to 7.62's thru arms and being temp blinded by arterial blood spray.... does that count?