TW2k13

[Medic]

Hi ya, guys.

I used to be pretty active on the 93GS forums until they died down, and I asked if people would be up to creating rules for air combat for the 2k13 ruleset so they could be used for non-Twilight scenarios. I'm now asking here, because nobody replied to the thread before the forum shut down. And yes, the rules would be purely pro bono, since I do not have a stash of money for buying the rights for the ruleset.

Anyone interested?

[Targan]

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Targan

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

I was thinking of adapting the 2nd edition rules for the 2013, but they would require some modification, for an example for V/VSTOL aircrafts like Harrier or Osprey as well as adding a huge selection of real world weaponry in to the mix.

And of course this would pave the way for something I've been pondering about ever since I played Deus Ex - were not very far from actual cybernetic enhancements. Rather, there's already some things like iLimb that could be counted as primitive cybernetics, and I've planned on creating a set of rules for them as well.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Targan

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

I already replied to this, but apparently the forums ate it so here I go again.

I've been contemplating about modifying the 2nd edition Nautical/Aviation Handbook's rules for 2k13, adding improved rules for S/VTOL aircraft and such (which would also work, if I continue with my plan to create rules for cybernetics on the Reflex-system, since honestly speaking, one could say we already have some minor cybernetics IRL (the iLimb hand prosthesis, for an example) - I've been playing a lot of Deus Ex: Human Revolution lately ). Of course, converting weapon rules and creating vehicular templates require a lot of work, so if there's anyone willing to take on part of the burden, I'd be happy to hand it out.

Also, I've got medical rules upgrade for Reflex-system in the works, partially due to my civvie profession/MOS. While the original rules are good, I kind of wanted to create a more thorough Stage III ruleset for all things medical, should people wish to have an even more realistic model for treating the wounds and illnesses.

[kota1342000]

Conversion from version 2 to 3 is kind of a hot button topic as far as Im concerned. Ive been looking at some of the heavy weapon stats from t2013 and they arent that different from the version 2 data. For heavy and large caliber weapons, I think we should create a couple more range bands past extreme.
...this was a quick train of thought I had when going through the basic rules. Ive been working on a huge bunch of characters lately and havent followed up yet.

And I LOVE the idea of stage III medical rules, having been an EMT Im actually kind of drooling to see what you come up with

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by kota1342000

Conversion from version 2 to 3 is kind of a hot button topic as far as Im concerned. Ive been looking at some of the heavy weapon stats from t2013 and they arent that different from the version 2 data. For heavy and large caliber weapons, I think we should create a couple more range bands past extreme.

Already done. Page 43:

http://www.de-fenestra.com/personal/...our_Engine.pdf

- C.

[Medic]

Like Clayton said, the range bands have been expanded enough (and practically can be expanded even further to allow the use of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles, if necessary).

As for the medical rules, I'm an ex-EMT/Paramedic with about eleven years of on-the-job experience, currently undergoing the last steps of my Registered Nurse education and also serving as a combat medic in the Finnish Army territorial unit. The rules are still under work, but I can post the preliminary version for discussion and brainstorming here, if people want.

[kota1342000]

MUAHHH-HAA-HAAA-HAAAAAAA
Outstanding. I was trying to think for names for the longer range bands...EX+1 and such works just as well.
Thanks much!

[Tegyrius]

It's not glamorous but it gets the job done. It also logically extends to BVR to facilitate air-to-air and air-to-ground combat, as per the original topic.

- C.

[Medic]

So, as promised, some Expanded Rules (to begin with - more coming up later):

Straight from my blog (which I know I should update again)

Close combat: Throw
There are three ways to initiate a throwing attack, all which require the grapple-qualification for HtH - by blocking an incoming melee attack (either unarmed or with a small weapon like a knife or baton), by using an attack targetted at the feet of the enemy (leg sweep or similar) or from a grapple.
The leg sweep is a aimed called attack, targetted at the feet of the opponent, thus entailing a roll of Hand-to-hand [STR-1 or CDN-1]. If successful, the target must, like with the Diving Strike attacks, make a successful Muscle-check with the penalty of MoS+1 of the attacker or be rendered prone.
Throwing from a block, the defender makes a blocking action according to the rules and an attack action directly after that. If successful, the original attacker must make Muscle-check against the MoS+1 of the attack roll against him or go prone.
Throwing from a grapple works as the attack in the Control-rules (page 151). It differs from the other throwing attacks in one thing, however. The character throwing can opt to maintain the grapple on his target, which requires a Hand-to-hand [CDN] -check. If the check for maintaining the grapple is unsuccessful, the grip on the thrown character is lost along with all the accumulated control points.
In all cases, a successful throwing attack causes impact damage equal to half of the MoS of the attack roll (though the surface, one is thrown on can either apply bonuses or reduction to the damage - the gamemaster has final say on this) to a randomly selected hit location. A crew helmet or similar armor will protect against the damage done by this.
With Grapple-qualification, the thrown character can, however, attempt a Hand-to-hand [CDN] check with penalty equal to the MoS of the attack to break his fall - with success, he will still become prone but takes no damage. If MoS surpasses the MoS of the attack by 5, the character can opt to make an ukemi and roll back on his feet.

Also, a Stage III disadvantage:

Obscure blood type
Value: 1 or 3 points
Special: While most humans have either A, B, AB or O (plus either one of the rh-factors, positive or negative) bloodtype, you have one of the 32 more obscure types, which makes you unable to recieve blood from donors outside your own blood type - or rather, making you highly susceptible to adverse effects of blood transfusion, if you do. It's not bad, unless you get shot. Of course, not knowing about this would be even more dangerous (the three point option).

[kota1342000]

Very cool Medic. Still haven't gotten started on the heavy weapons conversions, started a campaign for some friends using Reflex rules but 1.0 storyline. The group has just started the Last Submarine.

[Medic]

The blood type disadvantage will be part of the expanded medical rules, I'm brewing.

[Odie]

I am not familiar with the new T2k rules. Do they still have the hit point system they have in the earlier versions. I love they idea of hit points for body locations.

[Odie]

Ok I bought a copy of 2013. Just a quick scan through it..... I am very impressed. Lots of detail.... I love lots of detail. The career paths are fantastic and have some that I thought were missing. Going to dive deeper tonight but this might just be my favorite version.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Odie

Ok I bought a copy of 2013. Just a quick scan through it..... I am very impressed. Lots of detail.... I love lots of detail. The career paths are fantastic and have some that I thought were missing. Going to dive deeper tonight but this might just be my favorite version.

Yes, the amount of detail you can give to your characters with 2013 is awesome. All we need is people expanding those details in every possible direction and we have a very flexible system in our hands.

For playing PBeM campaigns, though, there is one downside at the moment. So far, I have not been able to conjure up a way to do battles without excessive amount of effort, though it might be my inexperience with the system that hampers the action a bit - I have not had the chance to play TW2013 as PnP so far, with my RP buddies living about 700km from me nowadays and I being too busy and too lazy to actively find a new group.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Medic

...I being too busy and too lazy to actively find a new group.

Check out www.nearbygamers.com then. May not be anyone close at the moment, but the more people who register, the better the database will be.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Check out www.nearbygamers.com then. May not be anyone close at the moment, but the more people who register, the better the database will be.

I checked the database and there was two people within reasonable range of me, who were registered. The third nearest was about an hour drive away. Insuppose I could register there, but...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Medic

I suppose I could register there, but...

Go on, get off your lazy butt and do it!

For that matter, EVERYONE should do it!

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Go on, get off your lazy butt and do it!

For that matter, EVERYONE should do it!

Still sitting on my lazy butt but I did it...

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Medic

For playing PBeM campaigns, though, there is one downside at the moment. So far, I have not been able to conjure up a way to do battles without excessive amount of effort, though it might be my inexperience with the system that hampers the action a bit - I have not had the chance to play TW2013 as PnP so far, with my RP buddies living about 700km from me nowadays and I being too busy and too lazy to actively find a new group.

I've just started a play test with three friends to see if we can make the T2k13 initiative system work in a PBeM format. Our basic starting point is that players are declaring a full EoF or Ticks in one post but we're still in the very early stages of this play test.

I'll let you know what happens and if we come to a set of house rules that seem to work then I'll post them here.

On a separate note www.nearbygamers.com is certainly worth joining. I found one of my current FTF group on there.

[Medic]

I've created a table for Air-to-Surface and Surface-to-Air ranges, though it would seem, the iPad doesn't allow me to attach it to the message. I'll post it from my tabletop in the morning, but before I do that, I'll give you the altitude bands that turn the air combat in to 3D.

At the bottom, we have Nap-of-Earth from 1 to 25 meters, followed by Very Low (25-100), Low (100-500), Medium (500-1200), High (1200-5000), Very High (5000-12000) and Extreme (12000-20000). The table essentially cross references the altitude and horisontal range for actual firing range. No, I did not use 3D-heometry for calculating the exact ranges, but if someone wants to do that, be my guest.

Comments are welcome, especially after the table has been posted.

[Medic]

Okay, now I deliver the tables I promised.

The Tables 1a and 1b are self-explanatory - just extending the range bands to 96km, so those wishing to use long range missiles can actually do just that. Of course, there's practically very few weapons that can fire beyond that, but hey, you can add one more band if you want, or two, it's simple.

Table 2 is a bit more complex. Practically, I took the altitude bands and made a comparison chart between them. If you are firing from ground at an airplane, you use Nap-of-Earth (NoE) for altitude. If you wonder, why there's +5 range bands to fire at a low flying plane, when you are in a low flying plane yourself, it is due the altitude variation within the said altitude band.

The Tables 3a, b, c, d and e are also pretty self-explanatory. However, I'll clarify a couple of terms here.

Any Cargo hit in a plane with no provisions for cargo is considered Fuel hit. The normal rules for catching fire apply. This does not necessarily mean the vehicle is destroyed - modern combat aircraft use so-called self-sealing fuel tanks, which reduces the probability of the plane being destroyed by the fire drastically. The rules for a self-sealing fuel tank are still in the works (and I won't mind, if you guys want to chip in as well).

The Fireball-result on the Table 3e: Major Wing/Rotor Damage is a catastrophic kill on the vehicle. It doesn't necessarily mean the movie-type explosion of the craft, but it means, there is enough widespread structural damage to destroy the vehicle. Anyone inside the vehicle is required to make a Difficult:OODA -check to escape the vehicle.

If unsuccessful, the character recieves 1d6 burn injuries of Damage 6 at random locations. A critical failure (MoF 5+) means, the character is killed (so, if your campaign uses Survival Points, this is a pretty good time to use at least one).

If succesful, the next thing to worry is whether the character happens to have some means of making it down to the surface below without making too big hole/puddle on the said surface. Parachute or ejection seat will help in the matter greatly. Of course, if you are flying Nap-of-Earth when this happens, you might actually survive without a parachute (since your parachute won't open in time anyway) - it depends where and what you fall on/in.

[Medic]

So, here's the basic ruleset for air combat, though it is still preliminary and requires comments.

There are three alternatives to how air combat is initiated. At the maximum detection range of either party involved, the one with longer maximum detection range makes the first attempt to detect the enemy by using any sensors available (Computing for radar systems, Awareness for Mk.1 Eyeball with bonuses from high-tech equipment). If the detection is not successful, the opponents will close in making detection rolls until either one successfully detects the other one.

If successful, he will gain the upper hand and can choose whether to close in, evade or, if equipped with suitable weapons for that range, make a stand-off attack. This requires achieving a lock on the intended target, a function of Gunnery. If the weapon in question is a guided weapon, it will require the Guided-qualification.

If no stand-off attack is made, a normal exchange of fire begins and the involved parties start to keep track on Advantage points, very much similar to the Control, used with Grappling attacks in hand-to-hand combat. Both parties make Pilot-checks to gain points and the one with more points is considered having the upper hand.

To initiate the Advantage, one must Engage. An Aviation-check is made and the Engaging party receives Advantage Points equal to the margin of success. A zero means, no advantage is gained.

Increasing Advantage (minimum Advantage 1) is the function of Aviation-skill with appropriate qualification (most likely Performance, if flying a fighter). The margin of success is added to the Advantage Points.

Tailing (minimum Advantage 2) requires an Aviation-check, receiving half the current Advantage as bonus to the roll. If successful, the target receives half the margin of success of threat conditions.

Attack (minimum Advantage 4) is maneuvering in to a suitable angle of attack from which to fire at the enemy with a suitable weapon. An Aviation roll is made, adding the current Advantage as a bonus to the skill check. If successful, the Attacker gets to fire one forward firing weapon at the Defender with a suitable weapon check.

Escape is maneuvering to evade the enemy and to get out of his field of fire. A contested Aviation roll is made, adding the current Advantage as a bonus (if any). The enemy loses Advantage points equal to the margin of success.

[pmulcahy11b]

Medic, do you own the wargame Airwar?

[Medic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Medic, do you own the wargame Airwar?

No, I don't. Why?

[Medic]

Another addition to the medical rules on the way: Cardiac condition. This will add a coronary illness to the list of disadvantages as well as a ruleset for treating it - not all the medical conditions are the result of combat or other external causes and the cardiac problems won't go away at the outbreak of Twilight War.

[Medic]

With an PBP Tw:2013 campaign in planning, I thought I'd post this particular item here. Comments?

M32 MGL: The Multiple Grenade Launcher, originally designed by Milkor (designated Milkor MGL-140), the M32 was adopted by U.S.Marine Corps among others. It is fed by a 6-round spring-loaded cylinder that needs to be rewinded when the weapon is reloaded. To reload the M32, one needs to use a 2-tick action to pivot the weapon open, 5-tick action per round loaded (includes rewinding the cylinder for each round) and a 2-tick action to pivot the weapon in to closed position (thus, fully loading it with six rounds takes 34 ticks). The weapon includes a non-magnifying reflex sight (factored in to the speed), telescopic stock, vertical foregrip and three rails for mounting other paraphernelia.

Caliber: 40x46mm
Capacity: 6 (cy)
Range: M/O
ROF: S/B3
Speed: 4/8/11
Recoil: 7
Bulk: 4
Wgt: 5.3 kg
BV: GG3,000
SP: $6,000

[Medic]

Hi guys. Has been a while since I actually wrote anything around here - partially due to the fact, I've been busy as hell with RL, our first baby being on her way in about a month. However, I managed to conjure up time for a little updating, which I hope you will comment on.

Gentlemen (and ladies if any are present), I present the corporate security and police special unit (SWAT and Bomb Squad) careers.

[Cdnwolf]

Great work thanks...

[Tnchi2a]

Ok looking to find if someone has or wants to come up with stats for the MBT/IFV/CFV for the reflex system.
While I dislike the story I love the system and would like to run some games in it, but I don't have the time to do all the research (Going back to school at 40 yeah me )
I am willing to put up what I have and contribute if people want to do it here also.
So just testing the water to see if anyone wants to do this or already has.