In MY Twilight:2000...what are your variants or canon-breaks?

[boogiedowndonovan]

off the top of my head

units left out of the vehicle guides/orbats, for example US 177th armored, 193rd Infantry, Berlin Brigade, 173rd infantry, British and German Territorials, 3rd Netherlands Marine Corps battalion stationed on Aruba, etc, etc

with the draft reinstated, more units being formed

Operation Omega: I never bought into "US leaves ALL heavy equipment behind" since Going Home says that there is plent of room for everyone (I think, can't remember dont have it in front of me)

Belgium: Belgians don't roll over for the French, since over 50% of Belgians speak a variation of Dutch. Instead they honor their NATO commitments, send Paracommando Regt. to Norway, I corps to Germany (perhaps like the Dutch and Danes) then everything goes to crap after the nukes, French invade Belgium and establish Dead Zone, Belgian armed forces disintegrate, breaking into French speaking groups and Dutch speaking groups and head for home.

[Olefin]

I agree for sure with the Belgians - the ones who dont speak French have no love for them at all - so where is that half of Belguim seceding and a civil war breaks out in Belguim or fighting the incoming French forces?

[pmulcahy11b]

Definitely a deal-breaker: a unit composed entirely of Elmer Fudd clones!

[pmulcahy11b]

My primary variants are in what didn't actually get hit, and in what equipment, weapons, or vehicles made it to the party and what didn't.

My big one is the amount of megatonnage that hit San Antonio. I don't think there'd be enough left to have a Red Star, Lone Star. In campaigns I've run, the Soviet missiles bound for SA were taken out by US missiles who just happened to have hit the Soviet silos as the Soviet missiles were leaving theirs. A bit out there, but it could happen...

[dude_uk]

Britain
- Re-raising of units to justify the enlarged British army presence
- Territorial and reserve ORBATS
- Mechanised Territorial units.
- SOME units back home armed with L1A1's and Sterling's.
- British Army using Challenger 1's and 2's along with Cheiftains. No Centurions.
- Junking of most the gimmicky enemies in the UK (i.e The Red devils, the gang who wore suits etc) and replacing them with more feasible groups.
- Enlarged Nuke strike.


World
- Greece and Italy declare war on NATO? Nope.
- 'Pyrrhic' NATO victory in Atlantic. Soviet fleet destroyed. But NATO too weak to take advantage.

[Targan]

Wherever possible in my campaigns I don't contradict canon. But I'm happy to add information to the game where it isn't contradictory, or where canon has big gaps. I don't get upset when I read discussions on data that is contrary to canon, but my fundamental point has always been this: if you move away from canon so much that the US remains a major military force late in the Twilight War (2001-onwards) you remove most of what makes T2K the game that it is. At that point I mentally switch off, because my interest in T2K is as a post apocalyptic RPG, not an exercise in roleplaying US forces dominating the world in a post-nuke environment.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

That's a good point, Targan; the thrust of T2k is people surviving under beyond desperate situations. Personally I think fiddling a little with this or that stateside situation isn't changing that much but like you I tend to MEGO when people start talking about the US still having three or four operational carriers, no civgov/milgov split, or DC didn't get hit at all, there's still POL available for air ops, etc.

That is, to me, like saying "Oh I play AD&D all the time - I just use 3e's Feats system, and 4e's Powers, and there are no level caps or class restrictions for demi-humans..." There's just a point at which you tip the balance and it's not AD&D (or rather, Twilight:2000) any more.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

Operation Omega: I never bought into "US leaves ALL heavy equipment behind" since Going Home says that there is plent of room for everyone (I think, can't remember dont have it in front of me)

I always though that Omega would be two or three runs, and with the US mainland invaded on two fronts, I can't see the US leaving any armour behind. I invsion a chop shop operation that allow for equipement to disassembyed and sent home, I also see resource recovery teams being sent out to find items needed, Ammo, POL, Salvage, Food ect, both in europe and the US

[schnickelfritz]

I've been working on a narrative that tells a tale where the US 5th ID (M) isn't completely destroyed.

I think it's relatively plausable, but it is certainly a departure from canon...and I like it.

The fact that I sense that Leg doesn't is a bit of a bonus, har har.

What I wanted was the ability to create some sort of campaign with units like I see in the RDF sourcebook, and after getting a pdf copy of the Eastern European Sourcebook, it made it easier to tackle.

I also use the M8 Buford AGS instead of the LAV-75. I'm still a bit stuck on what the heck to do with the MPGS-90 from the US Army VG.

I also keep the US 43rd MP Brigade from disintegrating. Colonel Fort dies of stress related natural causes and returning European Theater vets help reassert control and cooperation with the Isolationists.

-Dave

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by schnickelfritz

I've been working on a narrative that tells a tale where the US 5th ID (M) isn't completely destroyed.

I think it's relatively plausable, but it is certainly a departure from canon...and I like it.

The fact that I sense that Leg doesn't is a bit of a bonus, har har.

Do what you like, it's your game. You might want to be careful that it doesn't upset the balance too much though and give Nato too much power. Try beefing up one or more of the Pact units to compensate.

As Targan has said, change is good, as long as it doesn't give one side or the other an undeserved edge thereby radically altering the world. Even doubling the number or tanks a Division has on hand, or introducing a nuclear powered ship into the North Sea will seriously destabilise the delicate balance the designers created and result in a completely different strategic situation.

Every change can have unintended consequences. Every change needs to be thoroughly thought out with ALL the implications explored.

[Olefin]

One change in my timeline concerned Omega and it was the US ordering an initial withdrawal of a couple of divisions with their equipment before the general Omega order was given. Thus those units got to keep their heavies since that order was given prior to the deal with the Germans to evac the rest of the US forces.

And considering the state of the Mexican forces in the Texas module even one division with some tanks may be all it takes now to get most of the Texas Gulf Coast back to the US while still leaving a pretty big area of Texas to form an independent Texas state as well.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by schnickelfritz

The fact that I sense that Leg doesn't is a bit of a bonus, har har.

Although I generally don't like emoticons, this would be a good place for a smiley face.

Legbreaker and I aren't on the best of terms, but I try to avoid giving the impression that I want bad blood. My remark about his preference for the Mad Max end of the spectrum was intended as an honest summary of the tenor of his posts and observations over the past few years, not as an effort to denigrate his preferences. I would be unhappy to believe that I have opened the door on a hatin' session towards any member of the forum who prefers to stick to the published material.

[schnickelfritz]

No hate intended, just having a little laugh.

I'm all for balance...I just don't subscribe to the view that things are THAT bleak. Lot's of stuff got blasted and I sure wouldn't want to be on the ground in T2K Poland, but not EVERYTHING got blasted in my view.

Having 1500-2000 US troops largely marooned with the Siliesian yahoos and disintegrating Soviet units moving through the area on the way home in 2001-2002 will generate more than enough opportunities to bleed the 5th white if they aren't careful or lucky anyway.

My goal was to have the remnants of the 5th stay in the area for some time, then eventually head to the coast to join the US/Canadian forces there.

-Dave