Equipment for a Unified Germany

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

An interesting observation but what if it had come the other way around. Why not assuming that the small group of senior officers was backed by a large number of lower ranking officers (colonels and captains)? Then, while the small group of generals were conducting talks with the west, the lower ranks officers would start to prepare the army for the coup while most high ranking officers and officials were left in the dark.

For reasons of security if nothing else. The more people involved, the more likely somebody will talk to the wrong person and the whole game is up.
I think we can safely assume that word did not leak out before the West Germans moved across the border because if it had, the Soviets undoubtably would have moved against those involved.

The KGB at the time would have to have been very active and political officers surely would be integrated to very low levels thoughout the East German military. I can see the KGB perhaps under the guise of the East German government conducting a purge of all those involved in the talks, even just those rumoured to be involved.

No, I'm fairly confident only a relatively small group of officers with the power and authority to act would have been involved although I'm equally sure there'd have to be hundreds, if not thousands of the lower ranks at least sympathetic to the idea.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

No, I'm fairly confident only a relatively small group of officers with the power and authority to act would have been involved although I'm equally sure there'd have to be hundreds, if not thousands of the lower ranks at least sympathetic to the idea.

That was the idea behind. In Portugal, the movement involved a small number of officers of course but it had touched (at a political level) thousands of junior officers who had join with Political meeting over the past years.

Of course, these officers and a large number of their soldiers where supporting the coup. As a result, they simply refused to move out of cantonment on the government order and the resistance was only put up by the PIDE. STASI could have been equally blind (actually they were when the wall fall down).

[B.T.]

Hi there everybody!

Thanks for your encouragement and this kind welcome!

I have to admit: I did not even think about the original timeline. I play Twilight 2.2 every now and then and own a copy of the 1st version, but I haven't looked to it in the last 15 years.

Off course, my infos make no sense in the original timeline.

The original timeline would not let enough time for a resupply. More likely, the East-German troops could have been outfitted with colored armbands or the like. But I think, a lot of East Germans (of the original timeline) would have deserted their new army and tried to fight alongside their old allies. There would have been no reason, why most of them should have made up their mind (and switched over to NATO) in such a short time!

Kind regards
B.T.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by B.T.

I have to admit: I did not even think about the original timeline. I play Twilight 2.2 every now and then and own a copy of the 1st version, but I haven't looked to it in the last 15 years.

Off course, my infos make no sense in the original timeline.

The original timeline would not let enough time for a resupply. More likely, the East-German troops could have been outfitted with colored armbands or the like. But I think, a lot of East Germans (of the original timeline) would have deserted their new army and tried to fight alongside their old allies. There would have been no reason, why most of them should have made up their mind (and switched over to NATO) in such a short time!

Kind regards
B.T.

Well, IMHO, none of the timelines (including the new 3.0) make total sense -- 1.0's comes the closest, but it's outdated.

As far as wearing armbands or something: having taken a snap shot at someone who wasn't wearing the right shape of helmet (hit him in the face -- and it turned out to be the right thing), I really can't stress enough the need for allied troops to have some kind of recognizable uniform.

With the East and West Germans, it occurs to me that you might have a situation where some of the East German troops switched over to the NATO side, and others that fought with the Soviet/Warsaw Pact side. Lots of confusion for much of the war. Perhaps mass surrenders and desertions to both sides. Some East German troops might even go the partisan route if they couldn't find a "friendly" side to link up with.

[B.T.]

@ pmulcahy11b: You are definitely right. Wearing colored armbands is really not the best of ideas, but it's a question of alternatives.

Armbands have been used on the Eastern front in WWII in winterwar. Both sides used those bands. The last winter uniforms of the Wehrmacht had buttons on their arms, to fix the "color of the day".

In Panama 1989/90 parts of the Panamese Forces were equipped with US-style BDUs. Some of the US-forces therefore fixed white armbands or handkerchiefs to their arms.

Well, not really that effective, I suppose.

The shape of the NVA steelhelmet was/is so unique, that it cannot be mistaken. Recognizing an East German soldier would therefore be no problem!

[chico20854]

We (in the DC Working Group) thought that the difficulties of seriously implementing the v1 canon timeline were too severe and scrapped the whole idea of the NVA remaining in barracks for 7 weeks. In reality, the NVA would have been disarmed faster than you can say "JNA in Bosnia".

For our take on the situation, check out the following three pieces:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/s...rstandings.doc for the political background on the East German entry into the war.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/s...7th_guards.doc for how the NVA "engaged in friendly socialist co-operation against the revanchist Chinese"; and

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/s...ern_europe.doc discusses some of the difficulties faced in integrating the Volksmarine and the Kriegsmarine while the Polish Navy and Soviet Baltic Fleet are steaming westward.

[B.T.]

Hi there!

I've been doing some research-work on the internet and in various publications I have here at home. Again, the things I'm going to point out, refer to ver.2 and 2.2.

In real life the German forces had several weapons on trials in the 80ies and early 90ies. Somewere in the internet I found, that the G11 was intended as the firearm for combat units, support units - including artillery an such - should be equipped with the G41, a modification of the older G33. The newer G41 had a new magazin well to use the M16 mags.
The G36 was a newer development, I do not use it in t2k.

There have been other firearms that have since been issued on a small degree, espacially the G8/MG8 (= HK21). There is a photo of a member of the KSK (Kommando Spezial Kräfte = roughly Command of specialized forces), where a HK21 can be seen. This firearm can be outfitted with a spare feed block (?). It is possible to use G3 mags or belted ammo. As these have been fielded in realiy, I let them appear on very few occasions.

Bundesgrenzschutz (West German "Border Guards"), Zoll (Customs) and the various police agencies had used (and received training with) several other firearms, part of them have certainly been in some kind of stores. Among these were the G1 (= FN FAL) and various sniper rifles (HK and Steyr). Pistols included SigSauer, Walther, HK and some more.

It may be of some interest, that in the DDR a heavily modified version of the AK family came to life: the WIEGER family. In reality only about 1000 rifles were made for the Indian army. The action was copied from the AK, but it was for the NATO 5.56 ammo.

All of these weapons can be encountered in t2k, some not in vast numbers, but on occasions.

One last word on knifes an bayonets: Although the Bundeswehr never trained with bayonets, there are models existing for G3 and G41. I use them in the game, although this is not totally conform with reality. In the late 80ies, a knew Field or combat knife was planned. The German firm Eickhorn builds it (The ACK = Advanced Combat Knife, and, yes, that's the German name for it!) up to today. In reality it was not fielded, because of the collaps of the Eastern bloc. Some had been bought privatly and were used by German soldiers. As far as I'm informed, a version for the international market existed, being sold in the US by Colt. It was named "Colt Tactical Combat Knife". Like the AK- and M9-bayonets, knife and scabbard can be put to gether, to cut wires. The German model has a black blade and green plastic scabbard and handle, the Colt model comes in blach completely. The hole thing is isolated, to cut electrical wires.
I use this knife in my games as part of the personal equipment of most German soldiers.

Hope, this gives some new ideas!