Tracked vehicle attrition

[Olefin]

Saw this old thread - keep in mind guys that the M1 engine will do just fine a large variety of fuels.

My boss was an M1 commander in the Gulf War and as a reservist drove them again in 2003-2004 - and as he said you can keep it going on just about anything

it will run very well on any aviation gas, jet fuel (various types), gasoline ranging down to as little as 70 octane, diesel, even bio fuels and cooking oils

you have to clean out the filters more but it will work

the tracks are a different story - but keep in mind that Europe by now would be literally littered with dead M1's that they can salvage tracks and track shoes from - and with the reduced operational tempos they may be fine for years

the people who will have problems will be guys like me (I rolled an M1A1 tank) who take them cross country all over Poland - found track shoes and parts in Krakow (where else after all would have them?) but cost a lot

[kcdusk]

Reading all through this thread, I'm thinking:

1. could an average soldier replace treads? Would he have the tools & technical know-how? Could an average soldier even drive a tank?

2. we keep forgetting most of the T2K combatants are likely to be civilians. Some will be ya-hoos thinking they can claim abandoned army gear, riding around in army vehicles they can drive (jeeps, humvees, i wouldnt imagine a civvy could work out anything more ... even "simple" ATVs like a couger or Grizzly?). Most civilians will stick to what they know, maybe a .22 rifle. But who's going to try and start a tank? Point being even if a brand new tank was available or spares in abundance, i dont think civvys (or normal soldiers) would have the tools or technical knowhow to do the job.

[Sanjuro]

When I first read Olefin's

(I rolled an M1A1 tank)

I thought, AWESOME! Then I read the post properly and was a little disappointed, but thanks for the image anyway...

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

Reading all through this thread, I'm thinking:

1. could an average soldier replace treads? Would he have the tools & technical know-how? Could an average soldier even drive a tank?

2. we keep forgetting most of the T2K combatants are likely to be civilians. Some will be ya-hoos thinking they can claim abandoned army gear, riding around in army vehicles they can drive (jeeps, humvees, i wouldnt imagine a civvy could work out anything more ... even "simple" ATVs like a couger or Grizzly?). Most civilians will stick to what they know, maybe a .22 rifle. But who's going to try and start a tank? Point being even if a brand new tank was available or spares in abundance, i dont think civvys (or normal soldiers) would have the tools or technical knowhow to do the job.

Good points. You only need to find one guy with the right knowledge though, and he can train others. A lack of tools would be a major problem, I agree.

[Adm.Lee]

I agree with the above, if one is speaking of civilians finding an abandoned tank in the woods. But a military unit's got to have contact with at least one oother unit with still-kicking treadheads and their mechanics, and they've likely got a building full of whatever they could strip off of their own derelicts.

[Olefin]

the M1 tank is very easy to drive - take it from me (or you can watch the BBC and see it for yourself)

replacing treads is a different issue - but with the right TM and at least one guy who is trained how to do it and who can teach it can be done

oh and I havent rolled an M1 tank personally - but I have seen the results of it being done (saw a briefing a year ago about how an M1 in Iraq got retrieved after it flipped off a bridge because of a driver who was going way too fast - took two M88A2's to get her out of the river)

[Webstral]

If memory serves, them Iraqi rivers are all yummy.

[kiltedguard]

1. could an average soldier replace treads? Would he have the tools & technical know-how? Could an average soldier even drive a tank?

2. we keep forgetting most of the T2K combatants are likely to be civilians. Some will be ya-hoos thinking they can claim abandoned army gear, riding around in army vehicles they can drive (jeeps, humvees, i wouldnt imagine a civvy could work out anything more ... even "simple" ATVs like a couger or Grizzly?). Most civilians will stick to what they know, maybe a .22 rifle. But who's going to try and start a tank? Point being even if a brand new tank was available or spares in abundance, i dont think civvys (or normal soldiers) would have the tools or technical knowhow to do the job.

Yes and no. The average person, once they figured out how to start it...could learn to drive it in very short order. Replacing track pads is a fairly easy task that can be accomplished with a socket wretch, gun oil and a standard screwdriver.

On the other hand, popping the link-pin out of a set of tracks is what we like to refer to as "Breaking Track", and is universally accepted to be on of the most horrific experiences the first time you have to do it. (And only mildly better subsequent times.) The sheer weight of each track section makes a repair like that EXCEPTIONALLY DIFFICULT (I won't say impossible) to do alone. It requires tools to maintain track tension...and well...it's not fun with a whole crew. Yer looking at a timeframe of about 4-6 hours to do that in the field with field tools. The mechanics at the support BN could probably bang it out in about a hour or two change using their equipment and their experience doing it fairly often.

[Olefin]

Nice to see someone who has actually done it - seen it myself here at the plant in York.

And you are right about how much fun it would be in the field - it can be done - but it would be a lot easier if you had an M88 along for the ride with your M1 or Bradley when the time came.

[kiltedguard]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Nice to see someone who has actually done it - seen it myself here at the plant in York.

And you are right about how much fun it would be in the field - it can be done - but it would be a lot easier if you had an M88 along for the ride with your M1 or Bradley when the time came.

It would be a heroic task for a single person to do with an M1...easier with a Bradley. It's the sheer wieght of the M1 track sections. An 88 and a contact team would make it SOOOO much eaier and quicker.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by kiltedguard

It would be a heroic task for a single person to do with an M1...easier with a Bradley. It's the sheer wieght of the M1 track sections. An 88 and a contact team would make it SOOOO much eaier and quicker.

AMEN BROTHER

Breaking track in the field, in a Twilight 2000 scenario, would be a load of fun - especially since you would be screwed if you had to suddenly try to put it back together if you get visited by marauders