Operation Proud Lion: T2K in Kenya

[Olefin]

Take it from me - while the US is in a better position strong they arent - and they have a lot of enemys - Somalian warlords, the PARA, the LRA, and Sudanese rebels - then add in a bunch of non-aligned marauders, local Kenyan criminals and the fact that Kenya, while it may look small on the map, is roughly the size of France.

Thats a lot of territory to cover with what is there.

And what Frank has in his original notes as he posted on the other thread is what I used. I just rounded out his force.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

A semantics error on my part. I was thinking Challenge article/supplement but I typed sourcebook.

I thought as much. You've probably got enough then with a bit of polishing here and there. We all make the mistake from time to time of trying to cover too much in too much detail and then never being happy with what we've got.

Originally Posted by Olefin

Thats a lot of territory to cover with what is there.

Not when you consider the areas covered in the canon books.

Originally Posted by Olefin

And what Frank has in his original notes as he posted on the other thread is what I used. I just rounded out his force.

Is "rounding out" even necessary? Doesn't that add in units which may have been intentionally left out by Frank to give more balance to the region?

[Olefin]

No actually rounding out means things like adding a CID platoon to the MP battalion that Frank was going to have there or adding some reinforcements from Europe (a la what is going to the RDF), in this case a specific unit as well as having auxiliary groups and things Frank forgot like the Kenyan police units that are used for internal security that would be backing up the army.

Plus filling out info on stuff like the Army unit flying Skyraiders (that was Frank's idea originally I am fleshing it out) and the US recruiting from trapped Americans and others in the area to try to get replacements.

Keep in mind the US would be having ops in Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Somalia and the Sudan. Its not just one country but a large area. And I am including information on the whole area up to and including Djibouti - not a ton of detail but enough that you can use it to run a campaign if you wish.

I am bringing the M8 Bulldog "officially" into the game as well - should be there for sure. And incorporating real world events that post date V1 of the game but fit into the timeline for sure - like the Rwandan genocide as an event.

And fixing the French deployments in Djibouti to match reality and correct the error in the RDF where they left out a whole unit that has been there since the 1960's.

There will be references and material there from other GDW modules which I will give credit to - for instance I will be replicating the charts in the back of the RDF sourcebook (and citing that module as where they came from) for those who dont own that particular sourcebook for character creation.

Probably looking at 50+ pages by the time its all said and done - basically my idea of what Frank would have published if GDW hadnt abandoned the V1 timeline and went to MERC instead.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I am bringing the M8 Bulldog "officially" into the game as well - should be there for sure.

"Officially"?
Can anyone who was not involved in the original development honestly claim anything they do to be "official"?
FYI, the M8 is already in 2.x which is really just an evolution of what started in 1.0. It first appeared in the Eastern Europe Sourcebook and later in the 2.2 BYB. Also, it's a Buford, not Bulldog. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...und/m8-ags.htm also, http://www.pmulcahy.com/best_stuff_t...never_were.htm

Originally Posted by Olefin

And fixing the French deployments in Djibouti to match reality and correct the error in the RDF where they left out a whole unit that has been there since the 1960's.

See my comments elsewhere for possible explanation why they may be absent and not necessarily "missed".

Originally Posted by Olefin

...Frank would have published if GDW hadnt abandoned the V1 timeline and went to MERC instead.

Err, what?
T2K was not abandoned in favour of anything. Merc was simply an alternate universe using the same timeframe and rules as T2K. There were plenty of books published after Merc came out, and 2.0 itself came before Merc.

[Olefin]

actually yes we can claim it - notice I said "officially" i.e. in quotes

as in fan canon

and in the absence of any new information being officially put out thats as official as it gets

I will be sending the sourcebook to Far Future as well to see if they are interested in publishin it - who knows maybe they will

you dont have to use it Leg - frankly if no one does then they dont - thats their choice - but at least it will be out there for anyone who does want to use it.

[LAW0306]

OLEFIN, I published a draft a few years back and Frank came on here and said as far as i'm concerned this is Cannon now! Chico saved the post. It still did not sway leg. Just write whatt you think is cool send it to chico for edit. He is a world class guy I would give my life for. We know each other on a personal level and eat lunch together when i'm in town. Talk too him and he will make you better. He is the man in my opinion. I learned a long time ago fighting on here does no good and people are keyboard commando's ...turn the other cheeck edit before you send and treat all with respect even if they dont do it too you and you will go a long way here.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

OLEFIN, I published a draft a few years back and Frank came on here and said as far as i'm concerned this is Cannon now! Chico saved the post. It still did not sway leg. Just write whatt you think is cool send it to chico for edit. He is a world class guy I would give my life for. We know each other on a personal level and eat lunch together when i'm in town. Talk too him and he will make you better. He is the man in my opinion. I learned a long time ago fighting on here does no good and people are keyboard commando's ...turn the other cheeck edit before you send and treat all with respect even if they dont do it too you and you will go a long way here.

I suspect everyone here picks, chooses, and modifies as necessary. So what if your game strays from canon a bit. Suppose it makes sweeping changes to canon. It's a game. If a good time is had by all, who cares?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Olefin

actually yes we can claim it - notice I said "officially" i.e. in quotes

"We" huh? So who else are you speaking on behalf of then?

Originally Posted by Olefin

and in the absence of any new information being officially put out thats as official as it gets

I've tried so hard not to comment on any of your posts lately Olefin but mate, I'm calling you out on this one. Your ego is musular well beyond the point of having a positive self image.

Originally Posted by Olefin

you dont have to use it Leg - frankly if no one does then they dont - thats their choice - but at least it will be out there for anyone who does want to use it.

I'll be sticking with Raellus' take on Kenya, thanks very much. You've got a good head for analysis Olefin and you're a pretty good writer but the way you've barged into this forum and (it seems like) set out to deliberately piss people off, I wouldn't touch any of your source material with a 10 foot pole. You're older than me so I'm surprised you haven't learned that sometimes you'll get further with people if you take a diplomatic approach. PMs be damned. If you're going to constantly mark your territory in open forum I'm abandoning all restraint with you.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I will be sending the sourcebook to Far Future as well to see if they are interested in publishin it - who knows maybe they will

You say "Far Future" as if it's still an extant publishing company... rather than a legal entity existing solely to hold the rights to properties on which all work is being held in indefinite abeyance.

Do you have any prior experience in dealing with publishing companies, whether in this "industry" (read: "subsidized hobby") or otherwise?

- C.

[Olefin]

we - as in we's like Chico with what he has done with the DC working group, Mr. Mulcahy with the great work he has done, etc..

on things like the various guides that are fan canon that have been published on the Mexican, Pole and Czech Armies

like the Survivors Guide to the UK that Rainbow is working on

they are as "official" as it can get unless we can get someone interested in doing official publishing again on the game

as for Far Future - as Chico pointed out to me they still own the rights to the game - as such I think I have to at least email them and credit them as the people who own the rights on the sourcebook to keep everything on the up and up. And you never know - maybe one day they may decide to do something with Twilight 2000.

Oh and Targan - my source material for Kenya is the posts that Frank Frey put up on various threads here as to notes for that area. So if you dont want to touch it with a ten foot pole then you have to reject Raellus as well since its the same material he used to build what he has.

As for comments on my ego and what I post I have talked to one of the other moderators here and been told that there is no issue with what I have done so far.

And yes I am new here - but boards need new blood to stimulate discussion and new threads. As for your other comments Targan I will follow the board policy and make no reply to them.