Aircraft rules

[kcdusk]

As far as i know, there are 3 different sources for air, air to ground and ground to air rules.

There is a challenge article.

The air and aviation source book.

And hele rules in Free City of Krakow.


Does anyone think one set is better than the other? Personally i am leaning towards the challenge article. It just seems more consistent with how it deals with the things. But i cant help thinking the air and avaiation rules should be best since that whole source book was put together with exactly this kind of thing in mind.

I'm interested in this kind of thing because i use a merc type setting more than t2k,

Gerald Seymours In Honour Bound is one of the best books i have read re helecopter warefare. In the book, a guy with a bunch of Redeyes takes on Russian Hinds in Afgahnastan.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

There is a challenge article.

Actually there are two Challenge articles. Or rather, the aircraft rules that were published in Challenge were published in two parts, Air Module and Air Module Part Two. They are entirely compatible with the aicraft rules in Free City of Krakow. There are also a few bits and pieces (aircraft descriptions mostly) spread throughout the later Challenge mags.

With appropriate conversions (mostly weapons) those are the rules I use.

[Grimace]

I've seen the Challenge articles, but I don't have them, unfortunately. I have the Aviation book, and while I've looked it over, I felt it a bit on the clunky side so I never used air units. Only in one adventure ("Where Has all the Glory Gone") I created was there a single air unit, but in the two times I've ran the adventure, the helicopter has never come into play. Even then, it wouldn't be something the PCs would use, so it would be a little easier to handle, IMO, because the PCs would likely just be seeking protection/cover from the Hind.

I'd be interested to see how many people have actually played with both versions of the air rules and which they thought was better.

[Targan]

I could cut and paste the Challenge mag Air Module articles into a Word doc and post them here if anyone would like them?

[kcdusk]

I just remembered, but details on Pauls site for anti air weapons gives newer weapons easier to hit rolls as well. So that is a good way of differentiating between older and newer weapons. Using source books, i think newer weapons have a slightly longer range, and maybe they are lighter, but thats it.

I might write up an example of firing anti air weapons using each of the different sets of rules.

[kcdusk]

While chico is sorting out our new tactics 101 thread, i'm going to do an "article" on the different rules you can use for ground to air missiles.

I'll be comparing rule sets and also diff types of launchers (i've chosen 3 launchers to help show the differences between rules and also success rates of different levels of technology). I hope to have it up in a few days.

[kcdusk]

For heat seeking missles, would things like hot/cold days make it harder/easier to shoot down aircraft?

Rational being on a cold day, the heat signature stands out more therefore making it easier to shoot down plane/aircraft. Even if "that makes sense", is it enough to make it one difficulty easier/harder in terms of a task check?

I'm putting my article together, and plan to include some optional house rules.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

For heat seeking missles, would things like hot/cold days make it harder/easier to shoot down aircraft?

Rational being on a cold day, the heat signature stands out more therefore making it easier to shoot down plane/aircraft. Even if "that makes sense", is it enough to make it one difficulty easier/harder in terms of a task check?

I'm putting my article together, and plan to include some optional house rules.

Hot and cold days don't affect the seeker -- but they do affect the aerodynamics and thrust of the missile. The effect is very little, however -- not enough to make a difference.

Some things that can affect heat-seekers is: flares (of course), IRCM equipment, lasers, the sun, clouds, the ground, proximity of other aircraft, the tightness of the turning or jinking of the target, and the angle-off you're shooting at. The higher technology of the missile, the less they are affected; modern heat-seekers are generally not bothered by natural conditions, have resistance to flares, are capable of all-angle shooting (they can home on the heat caused by air friction as well as the engines), and have a bit of resistance to IRCM. The older the missile, the more easily it gets confused; early in Vietnam, the only reason most pilots preferred the Sidewinder is because the Sparrow radar-homing missiles of the time were even less reliable.

[kcdusk]

From what you say paul, for a trained PC (but untrained player) shooting a missle, the difficulty level you have on your site for each weapon really takes everything into account anyway. Ta.

[kcdusk]

Man ... the more i read the rules the more confusing it gets.

It seems each set has allot of inconsistantcies just within itself. Probably as a result of upgrading rules (v1, 2 and 2.2), and differant vehicle/weapon guides and challenger articles.

sighting ranges.
difficulty levels to hit targets
how damage is calculated
... its all over the place.

[chico20854]

Maybe it would be better to look at some other systems, rather than try to reinvent the wheel or try to resolve all those inconsistencies. I'm thinking of GDW's Air Superiority series, which has been continued through the 90s at least under another name. My reasoning is that all those complexities have already been addressed in one way or another - for the purpose of telling a story in T2k its really the outcome that matters, not the rules that are used to generate that outcome IMHO. We are using a similar approach for the projects we're working on - using Harpoon 4 for the naval battles and the Third World War wargame for the big-picture battles.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by chico20854

We are using a similar approach for the projects we're working on - using Harpoon 4 for the naval battles and the Third World War wargame for the big-picture battles.

I used GDW's "Assault" for most medium scale battles within my T2k game. It worked really well. It also had rules for SAM vs Helicopter IIRC.

[pmulcahy11b]

I've successfully used a variant of GDW's Air Power rules for such a thing in T2K. Unfortunately, it's (once again) one of those things I've never actually written down.