Aliens - 1986 movie (was Dog Soldiers)

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

You can if you're rebooting the franchise. I'm not clear on whether this film is intended to be a prequel or a reboot? If the latter, then going forward the whole Predator link (and the events of both Alien Vs Predator films) can presumably be disregarded by the writers if they wish.

Hard to say. The CEO of Weyland Corporation in Alien vs Predator was a middle-aged Charles Bishop Weyland. The CEO of Weyland Corporation in Prometheus is a very elderly Peter Weyland. The two films are set 89 years apart. I guess Peter Weyland could be Charles Weyland's son.

The sad thing is that the AvP films (well IMO certainly the first one) were better than the later Aliens films. I'd be happier to see Ridley Scott et al keep the AvP canon and dump Alien 3 and 4 than keep 3 and 4 and pretend that the AvP films didn't happen. I'd be happiest of all if Ridley Scott just wrapped it all up nicely together somehow. I find that 99% of the time what I want in a film isn't what I get. Then again I accept the fact that I'm probably a good 20 to 30 IQ points higher than the average target audience and have a damn sight better understanding of how the universe works.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Targan

The sad thing is that the AvP films (well IMO certainly the first one) were better than the later Aliens films. I'd be happier to see Ridley Scott et al keep the AvP canon and dump Alien 3 and 4 than keep 3 and 4 and pretend that the AvP films didn't happen. I'd be happiest of all if Ridley Scott just wrapped it all up nicely together somehow.

Yep, I'd agree with most of that (not sure whether I'd keep the second AvP!). To be honest I pretty much lost interest after Aliens...I don't think I've even seen the third one all the way through, only bits of it.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

The "Aliens and Predators as part of the same universe" idea is only because of an FX set-dresser's joke, really.

[Webstral]

I'd heard that there was a graphic novel pitting Aliens and Predators against each other.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I'd heard that there was a graphic novel pitting Aliens and Predators against each other.

Graphic novels, novels and, of course, two films.

[Webstral]

The films, I've heard, were the result of the popularity of the graphic novel.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The films, I've heard, were the result of the popularity of the graphic novel.

I think you're right there. I read at least the first (non graphic) novel and it was actually pretty good.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I'd heard that there was a graphic novel pitting Aliens and Predators against each other.

Yeah, the AvP comics came first, IIRC.

There's several; Dark Horse Comics traded in a lot of AvP cachet back in the 90s when we were all expecting an Aliens sequel at any time - to the point of publishing a sort of "continuing adventures of Newt, Hicks and Ripley". of course when A3 washed all that away, later TPBs of that series retconned the names of the little girl and the marine, adding some new information about Ripley being cloned and bonding with the girl and the Hicks replacement due to their similarity to Hicks and Newt.

But what I said about the entirety of the AvP crossover being a set-dresser's joke is the truth. The "xenomorph" skull that appears just briefly in the Predator's ship in AvP2.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

But what I said about the entirety of the AvP crossover being a set-dresser's joke is the truth. The "xenomorph" skull that appears just briefly in the Predator's ship in AvP2.

Sure, that was the origin of it all, but what's done is done. Film makers rolled with it, they made the Aliens vs Predator films, and now its established canon. And I for one think it's an excellent mix. I think it's very sad that Ridley Scott has nothing but contempt for the crossover canon.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Forward: Targan, I am not having a shot at you, I've been reading a lot of people's comments on Prometheus and there's a whole lot of haters out there. My comments are aimed at them in general.

As far as I know, Scott didn't say he had contempt for the AvP material, he just said that the two didn't mix. AvP was made simpy as a money maker for Fox, it has it's origins with Dark Horse wanting to make money out of the notion, just like the other comic crossovers like Batman vs. Superman or the old Universal Studios horror movies with Frankenstein versus Wolfman versus Dracula and so on. They may exist but it doesn't mean they are canon.

What started as a set-dressers little in-joke has been taken to heart by many but none of the film makers associated with the original Alien or Predator movies seriously considered doing a crossover. Dark Horse saw a way to make money and Fox picked up on it, it wasn't a film makers decision but a studio execs decision.

James Cameron had been working with Scott at one point to make further Alien movies and for various reasons and their other work, they didn't push ahead with it. Cameron was approached by Fox to continue the project and while he was interested, Fox wanted a money maker and suggested that the Predators be thrown in to make it more exciting.
Cameron said no because it destroys the integrity of both the Alien and Predator movies. Fox, seeing the chance to make a crowd pleaser and hence make lots of money, called Paul W.S. (Waste of Skin) Anderson in to make the AvP movie.

I've seen the first AvP movie and was not impressed, the leaps of logic and the lack of common sense displayed by the characters echoes all the criticisms that people throw at Prometheus. For example, one guy in the AvP movie decides that because (allegedly) the earlier civilizations used a decimal maths system, that the pyramid the characters are trapped in will change configuration every 10 minutes. Excuse me, what? That's a leap of logic so wide even Evel Knieval couldn't cross it.

It stuns me that people will critize Prometheus because they claim real scientists don't act like that or the science doesn't make any sense or the characters did stupid things but Peter Parker can get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly climb up vertical surfaces and that's perfectly acceptable.

I work with "real scientists" (chemists, geochemists, geologists, geographers) and some of them are f**king morons, very smart in their selected field but completely stupid at real life. I've watched them drop cyanide powder and then stand around for minutes wondering what to do, I've watched them get sulphuric acid on their gloves then scratch their head then later complain that their head is itchy. Scientists are just like normal people and prone to all the same emotions and stupidities that normal people have. And in some cases they're worse.

After all is said and done, Prometheus is just a movie, not real life. It's a mythological tale of horror set against the backdrop of science fiction and it replicates, in fact parallels, the Alien movie, in some cases using exactly the same cinematography and music score. It's up to the individual what they get out of the movie but there is a lot more going on in this movie than can be seen on the surface.