US Navy Ships of the Twilight War

[dragoon500ly]

just did a little trip to the Alabama in Mobile Bay. That ship is in no condition for any action whatsoever.

The engine room is sealed off and would require several months of effort to restore to service according to our guide.

All of the armament is demilled, breechblocks either welded in place, or missing altogether.

The barbette supporting the number 2 16-inch turret has been extensively modified for tours, A whopping great hole has been cut into the armor to allow easy access.

And the ship is heavily silted in place.

[Olefin]

There were USN ships that would have joined the fleet after the heavy losses early in 1997 - if you look at what was actually under construction you have at the least:

Arleigh Burke destroyers- Hopper, Ross, The Sullivans for sure - all completed after the dates for the big battles against the Soviets so they would have joined with what was left

McFaul is only possible if they speed her up - Ingalls gets nuked in Nov 1997 but Mahan, Decatur, Donald Cook and possibly Higgins are possible out of Bath before the electricity and fuel situation shut them down in late 1998, early 1999 - Mahan for sure

Amphib Warfare Ships - USS Bataan - Sept 1997 (Bonhomme Richard gets nuked along with Ingalls)

Submarines - USS Seawolf - 19 July 97 (this assumes they had the long down time in our reality)

Ballistic submarines - USS Louisiana - last of the Ohio's - commissioned Sept 6, 1997

Also possibly more Los Angeles class if they made more of them (Version 1) where the Cold War never ended - but not for V2.2

CVN - possibly USS Harry S Truman if they rushed her and got her out of Newport News before the area was nuked

not a lot of ships but a lot more capable than bringing ships in the boneyard or Reserve Fleet back into service - and added together you have the makings of a carrier battle group

[Legbreaker]

Have to keep in mind the Soviets would be doing the same thing, and possibly even on a larger scale given they'd been fighting longer.
By mid 2000 it's conceivable this greater production on all sides would have been cancelled out through further small scale battles sinking and badly damaging the new vessels (not to mention sabotage, lack of trained crew, limited supplies of munitions, etc).
So regardless of a possibly accelerated production, the situation as stated in T2K really doesn't need to be altered.

[Olefin]

I differ with you Legbreaker (boy big surprise there) that the ships may actually be surviving and werent sunk- the question as always is fuel - i.e. they may have been delivered and did fight in the war and may have been the escorts for either the convoys to Kenya or to the Middle East or to Korea - and or they may be stuck at a base somewhere - keep in mind that the all these ships post date the original authors canon writing (i.e. pre-Kenya/Korea releases) so they wouldnt have been in any of their releases - so could they be added to a scenario or area - yes - the addition of one or two Arleigh Burke's to the fleet in the Middle East or Kenya or stuck at a base in Korea wouldnt overly change those modules or power balances

And they would make an interesting addition to the Sea Lord of Jacksonville's forces (i.e. an Arleigh Burke in his fleet would be one heck of a ship to explain that he is a force to be reckoned with)

As for the subs - I never believed in the scenario of the USN being down to one submarine - no way that the Soviets get all the Ohio's for instance - but that doesnt mean they are all sitting at Norfolk fully armed and ready to go

the munitions part may be the biggest issue - look at an Arleigh Burke for instance - if you are out of missiles what do you have - answer one five inch gun and two Phalanx guns - i.e. you arent talking the battleship Missouri here

[Legbreaker]

So what about all the Pact ships and subs in the same situation then?
You've proposed an increased navy for the US, but ignored all the other ship building nations, especially those of the direct enemy.

[Raellus]

Good point, Leg.

Maybe Olefin is just focusing on the U.S.N. in this thread (look at the title).

But yes, a Soviet navy for which the Cold War didn't end (v1.0) would definitely be stronger than that which existed in 1984 or 1996 (IRL).

For example, at the very least, there would be one additional Kutzenov-class carrier, one Kirov-class heavy cruiser, one Slava-class cruiser (Admiral Flota Lobov/Ukrayina), one Gepard-class frigate (probably 3 total), and seven, not two, Neustrashnimyy-class frigates. These were just planned production figures too, not the result of accelerated wartime production. In fact, several of the above-mentioned vessels were already under construction (some were near completion). All of these vessels were cancelled, transferred, or sold off shortly before or after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And, as Leg pointed out, Soviet wartime production would have begun at least a year before NATO wartime production so it stands to reason that there were actually a few more vessels than just those mentioned.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Good point, Leg.

Maybe Olefin is just focusing on the U.S.N. in this thread (look at the title).

But yes, a Soviet navy for which the Cold War didn't end (v1.0) would definitely be stronger than that which existed in 1984 or 1996 (IRL).

For example, at the very least, there would be one additional Kutzenov-class carrier, one Kirov-class heavy cruiser, one Slava-class cruiser (Admiral Flota Lobov/Ukrayina), one Gepard-class frigate (probably 3 total), and seven, not two, Neustrashnimyy-class frigates. These were just planned production figures too, not the result of accelerated wartime production. In fact, several of the above-mentioned vessels were already under construction (some were near completion). All of these vessels were cancelled, transferred, or sold off shortly before or after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And, as Leg pointed out, Soviet wartime production would have begun at least a year before NATO wartime production so it stands to reason that there were actually a few more vessels than just those mentioned.

Yup you are right Raellus - I was just looking at the USN because the thread was dedicated to the US Navy specifically. And I agree that other navies would have had more ships as well - heck for that matter the RN, French, Italians, all would need to be looked at as well.

Leg wasnt ignoring the others on purpose (i.e. not implying that the US is the only Navy that added new ships) - if anything would be great to look at the other navies.

And as I said the number of new ships that could come down the ways in the time frame of the game after the major naval battles of 1996 and early 1997 wouldnt overbalance the game - even the Truman and the Louisiana. Especially if you are short on modern armaments for them and all they would have would be their guns systems (let alone considering the naval fuel situation outside of areas near working oil refineries and oil wells).