So What Teams are Needed for the Project?

[dragoon500ly]

According to canon, we have Recon Teams, MARS Teams, Science Teams, Agriculture Teams, Frozen Watch, Specialty Teams and Communications Teams...soooooo what other types of teams would you see see involved in the Project?

My own take is this is the primary teams fielded by the Project:

Recon Teams
MARS Teams
Science Teams
Aviation Teams
Medical Teams
Engineering Teams
Communications Teams
Logistics & Support Teams
Power Generation Teams
Decontamination Teams
Command Teams
Combined Teams
Base Teams
Regional Command Teams

[ArmySGT.]

Contact Teams. Using Civilian (alcohol powered) vehicles, wearing civilian clothes, and civilian pistol and hunting rifles. Acting as refugees, or barters they evaluate a village or camp for later action. Intelligence gathering not recovery or action is their method.

Probably a small RV or Delivery van for transport.

[ArmySGT.]

Transportation.

Truck drivers. A group of Driver/Co-driver teams operating rugged Tractor trailer rigs or Trucks equipped with the palletized loading system.

Material needs to be transported to where it is needed. Whether that is a a container box of disaster recovery supplies or a load of gravel to fix a road.

The ability to drop the trailer and return for another or to set down a 20 or 40 foot container is crucial as the number of trucks and drivers is limited. Additionally this reduces dependence on one off models of truck that remain stationary while in use.

[ArmySGT.]

A full hospital.

Medical Teams are likely traveling about in XR-311s or Ambulance model V-150. Some patients need surgeons, or long term care such as a burn ward.

Taking from a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital concept. A full hospital could be located close to an area where it could be needed with the intention of course that more nurses, doctors, and EMTs would gravitate in from the survivors.

[ArmySGT.]

Agricultural Teams should be split into two types. Crops and Veterinary.

Both with the intent of restoring food production to sustainable levels. Each with abundant frozen stocks of pre-War seed stock.

[mikeo80]

Let me pose an interesting alternate history. This team is HIGHLY speculative.

From TM 1-1, we know that the USA launched first. That would have given President G.H.W. Bush and Vice President D. Quale about 15 to 45 minutes to get to AF1 and AF2 and get the hell out of town.

(My logic is as follows, the "normal" warning time is app 5-15 minutes. Depending what the USSR fires first, their ICBM's (app 15 min) or their SLBM's (app 5 min) Now if USA fires first, USSR has about same warning, then their responce has to get here. Hence my thought of about 15 - 45 min warning. I would think it would be a "safe" assumption that once the leadership of the USSR knew our stuff was inbound, there had to be a minute or two of "WHAT THE F***!!!! Or the Russian equivalent.)

So, what if, not only does G.H.W. Bush get out of town, he gets to a very deep Morrow Base in S/SW Virginia. (He is told of this by Sec Def. Just like President is told of Area 51 in movie Independence Day). There he is met by a fully vetted Morrow Security Team intermingled with Secret Service. The base has full commo links to USA Military assets, as well as links to all Morrow assets. G.H.W. Bush MUST have access to the "football" since the launch by USA is based on an all out USSR "attack." There could even be additional Morrow/Military assets on site in deep sleep.

This give the GM an interesting scenario. The base described above becomes Prime. One in Nevada becomes Prime 2. This also give some REAL muscle to the security forces. This prevents the successfull attack on Nevada Prime by Krell. (I would think that Seal Team 6, or surviving equivalent would take care of THAT anoyance.)

This also does something else. Remember that Morrow is pledged to not take power. HERE in my PB1, I have the REAL President of the United States. The Government is acting for the country. AND the wake up can start, say one year from "The Day" vs five. Much better recovery possibilities.

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

There is one other team that has not been mentioned.

Phoenix.

I have read and re-read Prime Base Module. These guys would make Seal Team 6 look like babies.

I have only played Prime one time. And to the best of my memory, there was NO Phoenix Team. Granted, the game fell apart as we were exploring the base and trying (successfully, I might add) to bring up the main power system in Prime.

I think I agree with the authors of Prime Base. Just forget about Phoenix, use their area for more general storage.

OR

The team they find in deep sleep is not Phoenix, but a secondary command staff, put here before the base was needed.

That possibility opens all kinds of doors for future playing.

My $ 0.02

Mike

[robj3]

dragoon50ly wrote:

My own take is this is the primary teams fielded by the Project:

I've got a different hierarchy:

i. Field: The teams described in the modules (except for the Agricultural one in the 'Fall Back' module)

Recon - includes the 'Contact teams' described by ArmySGT
MARS
Science

ii. Area: Higher level, specialised teams, many based around fixed installations.

Agriculture (plant and animal crops)
Logistics - resupply and transport (ground,water, air for larger projects)
Communications/Command - 'C3I' at the area level
Medical - includes NBC decontamination (population); small clinics or hospitals at the high end.
Engineering - power, infrastructure, decontamination/reclamation (land and building assets) etc.

iii. Region: Top tier; the North American operations area is divided into at most a dozen Project regions.
C3I (command, communications, control, intelligence)
Prime and regional bases (e.g. Starnaman depot as regional asset)
Engineering (e.g. fusion plant factory, rocket base if you must have one)
Medical (hospital size facilities; research bases)
Science (research facilities; universities)


mikeo80 wrote:

This team is HIGHLY speculative.

In 1989, the Soviets had continuous launch on warning capability (available from 1984) with satellites watching the U.S. ICBM fields for missiles lifting off.

This gave them 30 minutes' warning[1].
Poseidon or Trident I could have been launched from areas not well covered by warning radars - minimum time 7 minutes from launch to impact.

Similarly, the U.S. had launch on warning capability with the Defense Support Program (DSP) constellation - though one presumes they were caught up in the computer malfunction that led to the U.S. launching a first strike[2].

The speed of Soviet retaliation would have been determined by the ability of the General Secretary, defense minister and the chief of the General Staff to jointly authorise a strike[3].

The TM1-1 strike is a bit wimpy, especially when compared to the actual Soviet arsenal in 1989.

Continuity of Government installations in Virginia, Maryland and West Virginia would have been primary targets.

The Project building hardened installations close to DC seems unlikely - someone in the FBI or other agencies would have taken notice.


Rob

[1]http://cisac.stanford.edu/publicatio...warning_system
[2] J.T. Richelson "America's Space Sentinels: DSP Satellites and National Security" University Press of Kansas, 1999.
[3]B.G. Blair "The Logic of Accidental Nuclear War" Brookings Institution, 1993.
p.64-74; chapter 4 provides an overview of the Soviet/Russian C&C system

[ArmySGT.]

The explanation for the lacking Soviet response is that the surprise was total and the Soviet Premier and High Command were out of position.


The response came from "Dead Hand".

http://www.wired.com/politics/securi...urrentPage=all

[ArmySGT.]

If you purchase the Classic Fringeworthy complete CD rom from Tri Tac games it comes with a .pdf of the original 1973 story written by Robert Sadler.

Present at a meeting to discuss Bruce Morrow and what the Morrow Project is are The National Science Advisor, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, and the Secretary of the Interior.

Hints at what the Government officials knew are given in the narrative.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The explanation for the lacking Soviet response is that the surprise was total and the Soviet Premier and High Command were out of position.


The response came from "Dead Hand".

And maybe, just maybe, our first strike actually worked to some extent. The Interesting thing about the American first strike,is that it had to be mostly ICBM and SLBM. The B-52's would arive later... By that point, there probably was not a whole lot left for them to do.

My $0.02

Mike

[Matt W]

Information and Coordination Teams

The Morrow Project can't rebuild everything. The IACT job is to get survivors working together and working with the Morrow Project

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Matt W

Information and Coordination Teams

The Morrow Project can't rebuild everything. The IACT job is to get survivors working together and working with the Morrow Project

That is a good one, Matt!

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

Political Action Team.

A group of Specialists derived from Political Science Majors, Sociologists, and City Management.

Tailored to identify Parties, influence groups, and run an electoral system.

Not really intended to strong arm Parties into favorable actions for the Morrow Project. The intent is to remedy extremes, steer groups back into a Democratic process, create stable centrist local government with the intent to influence regional politics.

[robj3]

ArmySGT wrote:

The explanation for the lacking Soviet response is that the surprise was total and the Soviet Premier and High Command were out of position.

Sorry.
That's a crappy explanation in our timeline, and not much better in the TM1-1 one.
As previously noted - as soon as the U.S. ICBMs lifted off, the early warning satellites would have detected them.

We know from the Petrov incident that individual missile launches could be detected, let alone the large fraction of the 1,000 available ICBMs that would have been part of the U.S. first strike.

The General Secretary, Defense Minister and chief of the General Staff were required to have access to launch codes 24/7, like the U.S. President's 'football'.

The response came from "Dead Hand".

Which would have been activated shortly after the SLBMs landed if we're trying to minimise possible Soviet response time i.e. U.S. first strike was with SLBMs.

Mikeo80 wrote:

And maybe, just maybe, our first strike actually worked to some extent.

It wouldn't have in our world. The other side had launch on warning capability.

The TM1-1 alt-history is very different - the Soviets got bio-ICBM warheads to operational status - but their early warning capability matured quickly in the 1970s and early 1980s. I just can't see it being radically different from what actually got deployed.

The two superpowers attained effective parity of strategic nuclear forces in the 1980s.

Prior to this the U.S. had the larger and far more advanced force.

Either side could produce a global catastrophe in their own right.


Rob

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by robj3

ArmySGT wrote:


Sorry.
That's a crappy explanation in our timeline, and not much better in the TM1-1 one.
As previously noted - as soon as the U.S. ICBMs lifted off, the early warning satellites would have detected them.

We know from the Petrov incident that individual missile launches could be detected, let alone the large fraction of the 1,000 available ICBMs that would have been part of the U.S. first strike.

The General Secretary, Defense Minister and chief of the General Staff were required to have access to launch codes 24/7, like the U.S. President's 'football'.


Which would have been activated shortly after the SLBMs landed if we're trying to minimise possible Soviet response time i.e. U.S. first strike was with SLBMs.

Mikeo80 wrote:


It wouldn't have in our world. The other side had launch on warning capability.

The TM1-1 alt-history is very different - the Soviets got bio-ICBM warheads to operational status - but their early warning capability matured quickly in the 1970s and early 1980s. I just can't see it being radically different from what actually got deployed.

The two superpowers attained effective parity of strategic nuclear forces in the 1980s.

Prior to this the U.S. had the larger and far more advanced force.

Either side could produce a global catastrophe in their own right.


Rob

Well, remembering news articles of Boris Yeltsin being returned to the Russian official residence in Washington D.C black out drunk wearing only his underwear.... I find it not surprising.

Then a great number of them can be out of the Moscow Military District in their little (laughs) Dachas.

Lastly the Soviet Machine after Stalin was not about personal initiative. So everybody could well have been waiting for someone else.

The launches are a complete surprise to the American Officers in the Silos too and the Submarines too. There is no great crisis or political showdown. There no grand diplomatic displays.

http://www.historyorb.com/date/1989/november/18

It is a Saturday, most everyone is a home and Americans are planning their upcoming Thanksgiving feast.

Private E-1 Snuffy isn't bragging on the phone to all his friends and relatives that Armageddon starts Saturday.

The NSA and CIA parking lots are empty.

There is nothing to indicate anything to anyone that 18 November 1989 is the day the world dies.

[mikeo80]

If I may, let us go back to the team issue. I know I contributed to the "wandering afield" as it were.

Here is a team that might be considered. Several NEST Teams would be very usefull, especially if something the Soviets sent our way did NOT go boom. I refer, of course to Operation Lucifer.

IF TMP works the way it was supposed to, it stands to reason there would be at least a few warheads, both USSR and USA that did not go BOOM. Having someone with the skill, nerve and GREAT BIG BRASS ONES to neutralize a nuke.

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

Nuclear Biological Chemical specialist Team

Intended with the original five year plan to search for and map out nuclear strikes and fallout patterns.

To sample persistent chemical agents to classify by type, map areas contaminated, and assist decontamination efforts.

Sample viral pathogens and bacterial infection from victims or animal vectors such as mosquitoes, fleas, or rats to classify by type and aid medical teams in searching for an antigen.

Vehicle either a M93 FOX or a V-150 TOW vehicle refitted internally as a NBC recon vehicle.

With trailer mounter fusion powered hot water pressure washer for vehicles and shower apparatus for decontaminating people or livestock.

[ArmySGT.]

Field Kitchen....... There should have been plans for hundreds of hungry refugees. Dehydrated food is better than no food but, the simplest and most affordable preparation is fresh.

Truck or trailer mounted, fusion powered baking ovens that can produce phenomenal numbers of baked bread.

A milling operation that can process grains into flour.

A plastic recycling plant on a trailer that can turn any plastics into disposable flatware, plates, cups, and storage bags, also makes sand bags if necessary.

A trailer mounted glass recycling plant fusion plant that when fed broken glass or silicate material extrudes glass in sheets suitable for average homes, and businesses, or to manufacture green houses.

A trailer mounted gasket and seal fabrication plant. A system using 3D printing, injection modeling, laser cutting, and rapid prototyping methodology. This system can produce select gaskets or seals for any auto, truck, tractor, construction equipment, small engine, or aircraft stored in the memory of the onboard computer control. Also functions as a large fusion plant to power electrical tools, and to run an onboard compressor for air tools. The operator can request a single item, all for a particular subsystem (such as a motor) or complete which will provide all the necessary gaskets and rings to completely overhaul everything on one vehicle.

[ArmySGT.]

Also reconaissance teams...... Why not Teams that launch UAVs, tethered aerostats, and drifting balloons?

These can scout large areas in a general way, lift doppler radar for weather warning and forecasting, and sampling of upper atmosphere for NBC contaminants.

Bridge layer? Some bridges are bound to be damaged or destroyed yet that river crossing vital to commerce. Alternatively, some areas would be predicted to be so contaminated another crossing would need to be built or significantly upgraded.

Crematorium on a trailer. Fusion powered. For the rapid disposal of the dead killed by biowar agents that is not frightfully psychologically damaging for the surviving family members.

Trailer mounted postal sorting station. The U.S. Postal service will be vital in reconstruction periods in bringing families back into contact. This sorts thousands of letters an hour, bagging them for transportation to regional hubs. Onboard paper mill recycles any paper into sheet paper and envelopes of various sizes.

[ArmySGT.]

Satcom, Secure Comms, ReTrans, and Radio Direction Finding.

Teams in a Modified V-150 APC with Trailer mounted Generator / Satcom dish. These teams would as part of a combined group aid the combined group leader (CGL) in C2, support the CGL in contact with and reporting to regional bases and Prime Base. These teams as part of a retransmission network would keep multiple combined groups networked. Radio direction finding (RDF) equipment aboard with large antennas and more sophisticated signal processors give this team an edge in locating Project personnel distress signals, locating civil distress calls (SOS), tracking U.S. Gov operations, and locating hostile forces C2 nodes of operation. Their secondary role would be in aid to civil radio stations, repairing the equipment and infrastructure, as well as training technicians. AM/FM civil band radio will be important in the reconstruction effort.

[ArmySGT.]

Air Defense.

Light. Teams with an FAV or XR-311 (I prefer Humvees M998 for this) The FAV doesn't have a ring mount, it has a roof rack instead. Lights are MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems.) They will be using FIM-92A Stinger missiles in the portable shoulder fired configuration to protect Morrow assets and refugees.

Medium, Teams with the V-150 PIVAD. This is the M163 Product Improved Vulcan Air Defence mounted on a V-150 chassis. This team will also employ MANPADS to extend their range and add flexibility.

Heavy. MIM-72 / M48 Chaparral Forward Area Air-Defense System [FAADS]. A system considered short range by the US military, this system provides a heavier hitting missile for engagement of threats to Morrow assets and protected refugees.

These systems coupled with LSDIS and Sentinel Radar teams provide coordinated coverage.

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/doco...d/chapter5.htm

[ArmySGT.]

Special Team Epidemiologists.

They identify, find the source of, and help eradicate a medical epidemic.

Probably a Science One, and an XR-311 for getting around quicker.

This kind of task involves alot of sample taking and analysis, a mobile laboratory is essential.

[stormlion1]

One group I don't see is a Law Enforcement team represented so I would expect to see a few teams dedicated to that task, especially as all those lovely supply depots, kitchen teams, hospital teams, etc will be sitting out in a cold world with hungry, desperate refugees looking at them as there meal ticket, a meal ticket easily stripped if its lacking protection. Course that's what's needed if they wake up after the strikes, what would they do when they wake up 150 years later?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

One group I don't see is a Law Enforcement team represented so I would expect to see a few teams dedicated to that task, especially as all those lovely supply depots, kitchen teams, hospital teams, etc will be sitting out in a cold world with hungry, desperate refugees looking at them as there meal ticket, a meal ticket easily stripped if its lacking protection. Course that's what's needed if they wake up after the strikes, what would they do when they wake up 150 years later?

I would think that would be a mission for MARS, some Recon, and specialist Psyops teams.... As well as recruiting from survivors the police, veterans, and social workers, equipping them and forming them into units.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I would think that would be a mission for MARS, some Recon, and specialist Psyops teams.... As well as recruiting from survivors the police, veterans, and social workers, equipping them and forming them into units.

Well the various teams like MARS, Recon, those specialist Psyops would have there own missions to complete almost from the get go and wouldn't have time to play babysitter to supply depots and medical teams,at least not until some time has passed. And while those teams are armed and capable defending themselves that wouldn't be there primary job or even secondary. Recruiting from the locals is a possibility, but how trustworthy would survivors be after three or four years of scavenging?

[ArmySGT.]

I still think this is the primary role of MARS. To protect the Project and Project personnel. Defensive missions mostly, the occasional offensive to remove a warlord or dangerous cult leader. Really though, if you go by the 3rd edition MARS has V-150s or the MARS One..... The MARS One is pretty tough (and needs a healthy dose of disbelief) but, the V-150 in the real world can't stand up to more than full caliber rifle fire. I can't see them mounting effective offensive operations with a small number of personnel and some armored cars. On the defense though, they can turn that into an advantage.

What else does the project need?

How about City Infrastructure specialist. Water treatment plant, sewage treatment plant, power station, linemen, commercial electricians.

A specialist engineering team to get city services operational and to train operators from the refugees and survivors.

[ArmySGT.]

Railroad Team.

Using HyRail http://www.harscorail.com/equipment/hy-rail.html Modified V-150s and Commando Rangers these scout the interstate railway system for damage. Then a team using railroad specific equipment makes repairs or diverts the rail around a damaged or contaminated location.

The railroad is going to be very important to reconstruction when the refinery infrastructure is so badly damaged.