Iranian naval units and the RDF

[Olefin]

A question - has anyone ever looked at a probable OOB for the Iranian Navy and how it would fit into the RDF?

What might have been their probable make up with the thaw in relations with the US and Great Britain pre-war? Would the US have transferred the four Kidd class DDG to the Iranians pre-war as was supposed to happen when they were originally built?

What might they have left this late in the war - obviously there is fuel for naval ships and Iranian Marines have been mentioned several times in the RDF - so what might still be operational as to their naval forces?

Love to see what people think on this subject.

[Rainbow Six]

Can't say it's a subject I've ever given any thought to. Off the top of my head I'd be inclined to say that the US would be wary about making any military sales to the new Iranian Government in case it fell and the Revolutionaries came back into power. Admittedly it has been a long time since I read the timeline in the RDF Sourcebook so can't remember when the new Government - was it the Iran Nowin? - came to power / how long they were in power before the War started, etc. Presume there was still an Iran / Iraq War? (To be honest, I just never really...got...the RDF timeline and the way the Iranians became a US ally...and then we had the Israelis showing up...to me it was all a bit of a deus ex machina and a little unrealistic...I much preferred the scenario put forward in Harold Coyle's Sword Point - for those who haven't read it, you should - following a Soviet invasion of Iran the Soviets, the US, and the Iranians all end up fighting each other).

So...to answer at least part of your question, I don't think the US would have sold anything particularly new or modern to the Iranians for at least a few years after the Iran Nowin came to power...I think the RDF sourcebook makes reference to Iranian F16's?

[Olefin]

From what I remember it mentions Iranian Tornado fighter bombers - which implies either the Saudis or the British sold them to them - and that they have F-20's - which could have been a private sale as the F-20 wasnt bought by the USAF

[Rainbow Six]

I'd be surprised if the Saudis sold the Iranians any of their Tornados; not sure how warm the relationship would be in the T2k timeline, plus for the Saudis to sell would deplete their own air force unless they had a replacement, so more likely they would have been bought new from Europe (the Tornado wasn't just British, it was a tri nation venture between the UK, West Germany, and Italy).

A quick skim through wiki suggests the F20 programme was cancelled around 1986 after achieving no sales. A sale to Iran might have been a possibility (presumably Northrop would have needed US Government approval) and might have extended the programme if the sale was deemed likely...again, I think it depends on when the Iran Nowin Government came to power - the later it was in the 1980's the less likely an F20 sale in my opinion....

[Olefin]

I almost wondering if the F-20's were a mistake - i.e. one person working on the module said they had Tornados, another used F-20's - also considering how the Saudi's buy spare parts (i.e. they buy enough usually for five to six times the force they deploy) having the Iranian's still able to fly Tornado fighter bombers would make more sense - i.e. the US gets the Saudi's to grudingly give up some of their spares so the Iranians can keep flying - but only enough for a few planes

[Rainbow Six]

Interesting to see some of the stuff the Iranians had on order before the Revolution...I knew they had a big order in for F16's (a lot of which I think ended up going to Israel instead) but didn't know they were also looking at F15's and F18's.

Don't forget the French...the Mirage 2000 might have been a good fit for the T2K Iranian Air Force. The Dutch operated the F5 until the 1990's; IRL 72 were sold to Turkey and Venezuela, in T2K they might have gone to Iran instead. The United States did have the 28 embargoed Pakistani F16's which might have been available for sale (in my Survivor's Guide to the UK I had them going to the RAF to replace the Phantoms). Sorry, this isn't helping much when it comes to the Iranian Navy - as you can probably tell planes rather than my boats are my thing!

[Rainbow Six]

If the Iranian Government is deemed reliable a Tornado sale is a distinct possibility. There were two basic variants, the Ground Attack model (GR in RAF parlance) and Air Defence model (F in RAF parlance). Structurally they were slightly different. The Saudis used both.

For the F20 I'd suggest it depends when the module was written and the Iran Nowin came to power - during the first half of the 80's Northrop were looking for buyers - a sale to a friendly Iranian Government would be a big boost for them.

[Rainbow Six]

Iranian Airpower What Ifs

[Rainbow Six]

This one has the IRIAF title so not 100% appropriate

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I almost wondering if the F-20's were a mistake - i.e. one person working on the module said they had Tornados, another used F-20's - also considering how the Saudi's buy spare parts (i.e. they buy enough usually for five to six times the force they deploy) having the Iranian's still able to fly Tornado fighter bombers would make more sense - i.e. the US gets the Saudi's to grudingly give up some of their spares so the Iranians can keep flying - but only enough for a few planes

F20's are virtually F5s as it is...there's a good degree of parts commonality I believe.

[Matt Wiser]

If you go to Chico's site, it has the Iranian AF OB that I did for the forum many moons ago.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/s...light_2000.htm

[RN7]

Page 5 of RDF Sourcebook states that as the US 82nd Airborne Division was deploying to Saudi Arabia, massive air battles raged over central and southern Iran and Iranian Tornadoes and American F-15's tangled with Soviet Mig-23's and Su-27's.

It also states on Page 5 that On May 3rd, the 82nd Airborne Division and two battalions of the 75th Infantry Regiment (Ranger) were airdropped into the Bandar-e Khomeyni-Khorramshahr area. US Navy surface units and gunships of the 6th ACCB provided fire support. The 101st AAD made an airmobile landing in the Bushehr area, supported by units of the Iranian Navy and two battalions of Iranian Marines.

Iranian People's Army HQ: Shiraz
Iranian 3rd AD (3,000 men, 10 Chieftan MkVs, 4 Challengers): Shiraz/Marv Dasht/Zarqan/Kazerun
Iranian 12th ID (3,000 men, 10 Scorpions): Fasa/Jahrom
Iranian 16th Abn Division (2,000 men): Bandar-e Lengeh/Bastak/Lar
Iranian 3rd ID (2,000 men, 6 Scorpions): Bandar Abbas
Iranian Army Aviation Bde (400 men, 2 AH-1Ts, 6 UH-60s): Shiraz
Iranian People's Air Force HQ: Shiraz
227 Ftr Sqdn (200 men, 4 F-20s): Shiraz

As far as I know Iran never made any attempt to buy Tornado's or the F-20 either before or after the Iranian revolution. I doubt Britain, Germany, Italy or Saudi Arabia would transfer any Tornado bomber variants, although maybe a squadron of British Tornado ADV fighters were transferred as the Iranians as part of an arms deal as the Iranians seem to be using a lot of British tanks in T2K. The F-20 was cancelled in 1986 in favour of the F-16 by the US, even though Morocco and Bahrain wanted to buy it and India and South Korea were showing a strong interest in it, and I've heard rumors that even Israel and Switzerland were interested in the F-20 which seemed to be a superior air defence fighter to the early model F-16. The F-20's radar was used by Argentina, South Korea and Taiwan in their own combat aircraft designs.

The Imperial Iranian Air Force placed an order for over 150 F-16 Fighting Falcon fighter aircraft in 1976, but deliveries were never made, due to the overthrow of the Shah by Ayatollah Khomeni in the Iranian Revolution. These aircraft would go on to serve in the Israeli Air Force. The Shah also contemplated the sharing of development costs for the United States Navy's new F-18 fighter.

As for US warships I don't think any Kidd Class destroyers would be transferred to the Iranian Navy, more likely Knox Class frigates and some minesweepers and patrol boats.

[dragoon500ly]

IRL, the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy consisted of about 12,500 personnal (1,100 officers)

Maritime Aviation assets consisted of 6 ASH-3D Sea King, 7 AB-212, 5 AB-205A, 14 AB-206A and 2 RH-43D helicopters. There are also 2 P-3F Orions, 4 Fokker F-27 Mk400M transports, 4 Flacn 20 and 4 Aero Commander utility transports. The Iranian Air Force also operated 5 C-130H-MP long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft.

Submarines
2 ex-Soviet Kilo-class submarines were delivered in 1992.

Guided-Missile Destroyers
1 ex UK Battle-class
2 ex US Allen M. Sumner FRAM II-class

Frigates
3 Vosper Mk5-class

Corvettes
2 ex US PF-103-class

Patrol Boats
10 Combattante II-class
3 North Korean Chaho-class
3 ex US PGM-71-class
3 ex US Coast Guard Cape-class

Patrol Craft
32 Aluminum ‘Boghammers’
35 GRP ‘Boghammers’
11 ex US Mk III-class
20 ex US 50-foot-class
20 ex US Swift MkII-class
12 ex US Enforcer-class

Mine Warfare Ships
2 ex US Falcon-class Inshore Minesweepers
1 ex US Cape-class Inshore Minesweeper

Amphibious Warfare Ships
4 Hengam-class LSTs
2 Commercial LSTs
1 Foque-class LCU

Hovercraft
4 BH-7 Wellington-class

Auxiliary Ships
1 large replenishment oiler
2 small replenishment oilers
2 water tankers
7 Delvar-class support ships (2 ammunition, 2 water, 3 cargo)
1 ex US Amphion-class repair ship

Source is the 1993 Combat Fleets of the World

[Green Monkey]

This is not directly relevant but may be of some interest for this topic:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/6bc1398b6674

Praying Mantis in particular was a pretty big deal. I don't remember how much if any of this content fits with the version 1 timeline though.

Cheers,

Nick