To Fortify? That is the question...

[Raellus]

I prefer a dry moat/berm wall over fencing. A chain-link fence is not much of a barrier. It's really not much more than symbolic. A station wagon could plow right through it; it wouldn't trouble a small team with wire cutters much either. Unless it was well covered by fire, it's not going to stop any but the lazy and least determined.

In general, human-power is going to be the primary means of excavating/earth moving in a T2K environment. If it means protection from existential threats, most local citizens would be willing to contribute to some sort of defense works project. This is really the basis of the neo-feudalism that I anticipate would be prevalent in a T2K world. You wouldn't even necessarily need motorized excavating equipment- just picks and shovels- I'm sure you've seen pics of Soviet babushkas digging AT ditches on the approaches to Moscow. A motorized excavator would be a luxury that many communities would not have. Those that did, however, would be able to complete defense works projects much more quickly efficiently. Such equipment could serve as a form of currency in a T2KU and securing said excavators could make a side quest for a community-building campaign.

Another option for creating walls/barricades is derelict motor vehicles. Tow or push them into position for a simple barrier. If one had to the means to stack them, you could create a more effective obstacle.

You might want to consider a hybrid with a little of every method mentioned so far. Chain link facing the marsh, a moat/berm along the most approachable part of the perimeter, wrecked cars for half-a-mile on another side, and a couple of shipping container redoubts with guard towers at intervals all along the perimeter.

[WallShadow]

With all this discussion of chain link, what has not been mentioned is using the chain link as gabion material--forming baskets out of the fencing, lining the baskets with say, old carpet, and filling the lined baskets with rubble to form building blocks of a fortification. Use a tripod lever arm to maneuver the baskets into place and Voila! a rubble/gravel wall.

[rcaf_777]

Like a poor man's Hesco bastion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesco_bastion

Could also use Gabion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabion

Or Sandbags

[kalos72]

All good information...

But would YOU put some sort of physical wall/obstacle around the entire outside of your towns if able? Thinking along the 25 miles long mark....

The 43rd MP did...

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by kalos72

All good information...

But would YOU put some sort of physical wall/obstacle around the entire outside of your towns if able? Thinking along the 25 miles long mark....

The 43rd MP did...

If I had the ability, in a post disaster world? YES!

[kato13]

According to this

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...102/Ch6.htm#s3

a trench 40233.6 Meters (25 miles) by 1.5 meters by 3.5 meters would take 2 M9 ACE 603.504 hours to complete.

Since the formulas are for anti tank ditches I would assume that number would go higher if you are on anything other than smooth ground.

Base fuel usage for the M9 (109 per period*), two of them working for 603.5 hours would be ~32891 liters of diesel.

* Source: http://www.pmulcahy.com/tracked_engi...les/us_tev.htm

[kalos72]

Without giving up too much data...

32k diesel is roughly one days production at this point in the story line...I am ok with that.

The next questions is manpower.

What good is a fence that isnt patrolled or monitored?

Assume a guard tower every 500-1000 meters over 25 miles would be 40-80 towers. Two people per tower at all times? Thats like 100-150 people per shift...3-4-5 shifts? And that will not count active patrols within the perimeter or at guard posts/gate guards and such.

Ouch.

[robert.munsey]

That is if those M9 ACE hydraulic hoses would stay in operation.....

Originally Posted by kato13

According to this

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...102/Ch6.htm#s3

a trench 40233.6 Meters (25 miles) by 1.5 meters by 3.5 meters would take 2 M9 ACE 603.504 hours to complete.

Since the formulas are for anti tank ditches I would assume that number would go higher if you are on anything other than smooth ground.

Base fuel usage for the M9 (109 per period*), two of them working for 603.5 hours would be ~32891 liters of diesel.

* Source: http://www.pmulcahy.com/tracked_engi...les/us_tev.htm