KFS Refit

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Capt Gideon

What electronics and transformers that aren't wiped out by EMP will be taken out by tin whiskers and similar traits that plague electronics. While the electronics in an Abrams might survive the nuclear exchange, they don't keep the spare parts and test equipment needed to maintain and repair the tank in hardened storage areas. And unlike the M48, M60, M103 tanks which could be operated without any electronics and even had manual operation for training the turret and elevating the gun, the M1 tank is nothing by an oversized paperweight without its electronics. The turret was said to be too heavy for manual operation and unlike the simple gasoline and diesel engines of earlier tanks, the gas turbine has a very sophisticated electronic fuel control and operating system. The M48, M60 & M103 all had optical sights in addition to the electronic and IR sights, not the Abrams, all the optics are electronic. The M1 is also a fuel hog. The gas turbine takes five times the fuel that the multi-fuel piston engine of the Leopard2A6. So where a Leopard2A6 would need one fuel truck to support it getting to an objective, the M1A2 would need 5 fuel trucks to reach the same objective. Not a big deal back in the 1970s when it was designed to fight a defensive war in Europe.

I think you will be rather surprised by how primitive the electronics in an M1 actually are. These are EMP hardened solid state electronics rooted in the 1970s. The DoD fully expected a nuclear battlefield and prepared the equipment for it. These will ride out a near miss and start right up. The newer digital electronic such as the Blue Force tracker and the SINCGARS radio could be affected if the antennas are not dismounted. If these are then their protected as the hull of the M1 and M2 act as a big faraday cage and conduct the EMP pulse to the earth.

[welsh]

I have to admit that I don't have Fallback or Bullets and Bluegrass, but then I am not sure how far one needs to follow Morrow Project Canon either. To me the game books are more tools than bible, useful for the story you tell.

If, as was discussed above, is to be taken as game canon, than it seems the KFS has 3 basic security challenges.

(1) external threats that usually don't amass to more than pirates, bandits and border challenges. Perhaps they engage in slave raiding, but since they haven't fought a real war in 100 years, I suspect that their heavy weapons are in disrepair. If they needed it, they would do the upkeep, but they probably don't and so, law of entropy, it falls apart.

(2) Slave revolts. One would need some kind of control mechanism to keep the slaves down, but at the same time, you don't want the slaves to get their hands on weapons too easily. So you would probably need some kind of auxiliary militia to stomp out any slave revolts as well as a reserve mobile force to attack.

(3) Coups- if their main fear is their own army, then they would coup-proof. Coup proofing occurs in a variety of ways but a praetorian guard is dangerous least the praetorians turn on the masters. I assume the Rich 5 is an oligopoly, which probably means they don't trust each other. Coup plotters often turn on each other in the less developing world (Liberia and Ethiopia are good cases). One could engage in surveillance of the military- but that is difficult and expensive. One could also factionalize the army, so that they balance against each other- but that risks nasty civil war.

An elite and loyal air arm would be a big plus, but it would depend on ground support. Air arms rarely launch coups (some exceptions in Ghana and Kenya). But armies do if they see they have the option.

If you are the Rich-5 and you are paranoid and worried about your army launching a coup, what kind of army would you create?

(1) One probably penetrated with loyalists.
(2) One that is probably fairly satisfied materially.
(3) One that is dependent on the rest of society and the political means.
(4) One that is divided into rival factions.
(5) One that is probably not overly well armed verses the others.

Heavy tanks and APCs that are gas guzzlers would not be so much a problem with regard to fuel if you have fusion reactors- but that is a much abused technology. I think the challenge is upkeep, electronics, wear and tear. I would also suspect that they would also need some kind of military education to train people to be pilots, engineers, technicians- a technologically efficient force, but not a professional force in the Huntington sense (a militarized civil society loyal to the political establishment), but a well-trained and educated one.

my 2 cents.

[Capt Gideon]

I developed a Society that the Rich 5 developed into back in the 90s before I ever heard of the KFS. I took the concept of a society fashioned by corporate elitists and an old theory that the high quality people are at a disadvantage because the lower quality people reproduce faster. So drawing first on Sir Francis Galton, who gave use weather maps and eugenics, along with the statistical ideal of Regression toward the Mean, and then throwing in Ayn Rand mostly Atlas Shrugged with John Galt a picture of the society came together. The capital city would be named Atlas and the nation would be named Galtonia. I kept the slave society but used the French model with a number of slave rights, then introduced the concept that if a family had been workers (slaves) in good standing for three generations then the children could apply for military service. Upon completion of 4 years the in service was a freeman and after six his wife and children would be free. The service man could eventually serve long enough to free his parents as well. This encourage loyalty in the military because service meant freedom for the families. I saw the society having a caste system with limited ability to change ones status. I saw then using a developed rail system instead of a developed road network because a electrified rail system meant you can control the flow of people and goods while at the same time making it difficult to use against you when you control the power to the system.

Public education can also serve as a way of indoctrinating the youth of a society. The use of RFID chips by all members of society is another means of control. The very upper level of society may even have personal robots while the worker farmer may be using farm equipment from the 60s & 70s. There may well be universal health care, but the level and sophistication of the care will depend on the status in society.

The Rich 5 know of the Morrow Project and want to know more. Slavers may have bounties for project personnel and the Rich 5 may provide slavers with special high tech gear from time to time just to catch PC off guard.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by welsh

I have to admit that I don't have Fallback or Bullets and Bluegrass, but then I am not sure how far one needs to follow Morrow Project Canon either. To me the game books are more tools than bible, useful for the story you tell.

If, as was discussed above, is to be taken as game canon, than it seems the KFS has 3 basic security challenges.

(1) external threats that usually don't amass to more than pirates, bandits and border challenges. Perhaps they engage in slave raiding, but since they haven't fought a real war in 100 years, I suspect that their heavy weapons are in disrepair. If they needed it, they would do the upkeep, but they probably don't and so, law of entropy, it falls apart.

(2) Slave revolts. One would need some kind of control mechanism to keep the slaves down, but at the same time, you don't want the slaves to get their hands on weapons too easily. So you would probably need some kind of auxiliary militia to stomp out any slave revolts as well as a reserve mobile force to attack.

(3) Coups- if their main fear is their own army, then they would coup-proof. Coup proofing occurs in a variety of ways but a praetorian guard is dangerous least the praetorians turn on the masters. I assume the Rich 5 is an oligopoly, which probably means they don't trust each other. Coup plotters often turn on each other in the less developing world (Liberia and Ethiopia are good cases). One could engage in surveillance of the military- but that is difficult and expensive. One could also factionalize the army, so that they balance against each other- but that risks nasty civil war.

An elite and loyal air arm would be a big plus, but it would depend on ground support. Air arms rarely launch coups (some exceptions in Ghana and Kenya). But armies do if they see they have the option.

If you are the Rich-5 and you are paranoid and worried about your army launching a coup, what kind of army would you create?

(1) One probably penetrated with loyalists.
(2) One that is probably fairly satisfied materially.
(3) One that is dependent on the rest of society and the political means.
(4) One that is divided into rival factions.
(5) One that is probably not overly well armed verses the others.

Heavy tanks and APCs that are gas guzzlers would not be so much a problem with regard to fuel if you have fusion reactors- but that is a much abused technology. I think the challenge is upkeep, electronics, wear and tear. I would also suspect that they would also need some kind of military education to train people to be pilots, engineers, technicians- a technologically efficient force, but not a professional force in the Huntington sense (a militarized civil society loyal to the political establishment), but a well-trained and educated one.

my 2 cents.

Interesting and the kind of problem that has puzzled far older societies from Spartacus's revolt to the Indian mutiny. So here's what I think most of them do, first of all you raise a warrior elite. After 30 years of loyal service or if they die or are crippled you give them a modest pension, a chunk of land to farm absolution from taxes, a fancy piece of paper with a title on it. If the alternative is serfdom and slavery they'll suicide bomb their grannies bridge club. Then ala Stalin move them to police or fight far away from their homeland so they don't get any pangs of conciense. Then finally give them a smart uniform, make them clean it alot and sing songs about how awesome their army is. You can even bring silly laws like only elite soldiers and the nobility can brew beer or eat beef or what ever.

So for surprisingly little investment you have a force of soldiers that won't run, won't turn on you and will kill anyone you tell them too.

A similar model produced everyone from the elite Ghurka units, the SS and the legions of Ancient Rome.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by welsh

I have to admit that I don't have Fallback or Bullets and Bluegrass, but then I am not sure how far one needs to follow Morrow Project Canon either. To me the game books are more tools than bible, useful for the story you tell.

No one is going to burn you at the stake if you depart from Morrow Project Canon. That is for the T2k/T2K13 side of the house.

Mostly Canon is used as a baseline. Canon adds consistency to the storytelling, and gives everyone common ground to progress in polite debate.

Departures from canon and alternate timelines are interesting and welcome. However, you will notice those threads tend to stall, as one person is telling the story and everyone else is agreeing or disagreeing.

The other reason for the canon discussions is that those of us that have the module would dearly love to expand upon them and fill out the details.

Trust me just as you have a whole adventure plotline planned out, the PCs are about to meet the NPC that introduces the story hook............. Someone tries to pickpocket the fat guy, fails their agility roll, a fight breaks out, and the PCs leave the tavern. Ha.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by welsh

I have to admit that I don't have Fallback or Bullets and Bluegrass, but then I am not sure how far one needs to follow Morrow Project Canon either. To me the game books are more tools than bible, useful for the story you tell.

If, as was discussed above, is to be taken as game canon, than it seems the KFS has 3 basic security challenges.

(1) external threats that usually don't amass to more than pirates, bandits and border challenges. Perhaps they engage in slave raiding, but since they haven't fought a real war in 100 years, I suspect that their heavy weapons are in disrepair. If they needed it, they would do the upkeep, but they probably don't and so, law of entropy, it falls apart.

(2) Slave revolts. One would need some kind of control mechanism to keep the slaves down, but at the same time, you don't want the slaves to get their hands on weapons too easily. So you would probably need some kind of auxiliary militia to stomp out any slave revolts as well as a reserve mobile force to attack.

(3) Coups- if their main fear is their own army, then they would coup-proof. Coup proofing occurs in a variety of ways but a praetorian guard is dangerous least the praetorians turn on the masters. I assume the Rich 5 is an oligopoly, which probably means they don't trust each other. Coup plotters often turn on each other in the less developing world (Liberia and Ethiopia are good cases). One could engage in surveillance of the military- but that is difficult and expensive. One could also factionalize the army, so that they balance against each other- but that risks nasty civil war.

An elite and loyal air arm would be a big plus, but it would depend on ground support. Air arms rarely launch coups (some exceptions in Ghana and Kenya). But armies do if they see they have the option.

If you are the Rich-5 and you are paranoid and worried about your army launching a coup, what kind of army would you create?

(1) One probably penetrated with loyalists.
(2) One that is probably fairly satisfied materially.
(3) One that is dependent on the rest of society and the political means.
(4) One that is divided into rival factions.
(5) One that is probably not overly well armed verses the others.

Heavy tanks and APCs that are gas guzzlers would not be so much a problem with regard to fuel if you have fusion reactors- but that is a much abused technology. I think the challenge is upkeep, electronics, wear and tear. I would also suspect that they would also need some kind of military education to train people to be pilots, engineers, technicians- a technologically efficient force, but not a professional force in the Huntington sense (a militarized civil society loyal to the political establishment), but a well-trained and educated one.

my 2 cents.

That would summarize "Bullets & Bluegrass" pretty well.

Secret societies, Coup plots, inter - Family intrigue......... etc.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I think you will be rather surprised by how primitive the electronics in an M1 actually are. These are EMP hardened solid state electronics rooted in the 1970s. The DoD fully expected a nuclear battlefield and prepared the equipment for it. These will ride out a near miss and start right up. The newer digital electronic such as the Blue Force tracker and the SINCGARS radio could be affected if the antennas are not dismounted. If these are then their protected as the hull of the M1 and M2 act as a big faraday cage and conduct the EMP pulse to the earth.

Speaking as a retired DAT, we always trained for if the electronics cut out, the Gunner's Auxiliary Sight allowed a gunner to adjust without the computer, so the KFS using the M1 is doable. The issue becomes can they build the gas turbine, or will they modify the engine pack and use something they can build AND maintain, your mileage may vary.

Doubtful they can produce the special armor plate, but all they need is armor proof against 90mm rounds, just keeping the other units reliable!

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Speaking as a retired DAT, we always trained for if the electronics cut out, the Gunner's Auxiliary Sight allowed a gunner to adjust without the computer, so the KFS using the M1 is doable. The issue becomes can they build the gas turbine, or will they modify the engine pack and use something they can build AND maintain, your mileage may vary.

Doubtful they can produce the special armor plate, but all they need is armor proof against 90mm rounds, just keeping the other units reliable!

Depends on if the KFS has access to prototypes or blueprints of cancelled DoD, DARPA, or defense contractor projects. The Crusader Howitzer was supposed to have a common powerpack with the M1A2, and that a V-12 diesel would be an optional. Now there is talk of the M1A3 and an optional V-12 powerpack for that. Afghanistan and Iraq taught us that there is a need for the turbine in the rapid offensive operations but, in low intensity, COIN, and even in some pure defensive postures the more conservative piston diesel is the better choice.

I was certain there was an auxiliary sight for the M1 gunner but, I wasn't sure of the type, training, or how used. Thanks.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Depends on if the KFS has access to prototypes or blueprints of cancelled DoD, DARPA, or defense contractor projects. The Crusader Howitzer was supposed to have a common powerpack with the M1A2, and that a V-12 diesel would be an optional. Now there is talk of the M1A3 and an optional V-12 powerpack for that. Afghanistan and Iraq taught us that there is a need for the turbine in the rapid offensive operations but, in low intensity, COIN, and even in some pure defensive postures the more conservative piston diesel is the better choice.

I was certain there was an auxiliary sight for the M1 gunner but, I wasn't sure of the type, training, or how used. Thanks.

The Gunner's Auxiliary Sight or GAS, requires significant training to master, the gunner has to compute target speed and the range, it most definitely NOT a "one round, one hit" system. Plan on two-four rounds for a moving target, one-three rounds to walk into a stationary target. The GAS depends on standard ammunition types, depending on what the KFS can build, they may even replace the sight with something similar to that used in world war two tanks (stereoscopic sights).

[ArmySGT.]

General characteristics
Crew: 10 — pilot, co-pilot, bow turret gunner, flight engineer, radio operator, navigator, radar operator, two waist gunners, ventral gunner
Length: 63 ft 10 7/16 in (19.46 m)
Wingspan: 104 ft 0 in (31.70 m)
Height: 21 ft 1 in (6.15 m)
Wing area: 1,400 ft² (130 m²)
Empty weight: 20,910 lb (9,485 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 35,420 lb (16,066 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 Twin Wasp radial engines, 1,200 hp (895 kW each) each
Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0309
Drag area: 43.26 ft² (4.02 m²)
Aspect ratio: 7.73

Performance
Maximum speed: 196 mph (314 km/h)
Cruise speed: 125 mph (201 km/h)
Range: 2,520 mi (4,030 km)
Service ceiling: 15,800 ft (4,000 m)
Rate of climb: 1,000 ft/min (5.1 m/s)
Wing loading: 25.3 lb/ft² (123.6 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.034 hp/lb (0.056 kW/kg)

Lift-to-drag ratio: 11.9

Armament

3 .30 cal (7.62 mm) machine guns (two in nose turret, one in ventral hatch at tail)
2 .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns (one in each waist blister)
4,000 lb (1,814 kg) of bombs or depth charges; torpedo racks were also available

Salvaged from a coastal airfield in Mississippi are two PBY-5A by merchants of the Kentucky Free States. The merchants came back with one of the engines on a horse drawn cart and some crude sketches of the amphibious aircraft. Technicians, descendants of the Two Thousand, were glad to accept the engine and trade it for gold. The merchants were persuaded to escort a salvage operation to the area for gold and some New Manhattan real estate. These aircraft have been to badly damaged be exposure to UV light and salt air to ever fly again. The KFS is using them as templates along with plans and designs from library sources.

In a year, the first model will be ready for test flights in preparation for an aerial reconnaissance unit of 12 aircraft to start. Once this unit has been operational and difficulties sorted out an additional number of exclusive civilian aircraft will serve the needs of the upper caste.

[mmartin798]

Just a nit pick really:

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

These aircraft have been to badly damaged be exposure to UV light and salt air to ever fly again.

These are metal skinned aircraft and UV should not be a problem, other than windscreens. Oxidation would be the problem here.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

Just a nit pick really:



These are metal skinned aircraft and UV should not be a problem, other than windscreens. Oxidation would be the problem here.

There is enough rubber and plastic to make that a problem. Tires, seals, acrylic windows, the paint itself.