Airliner Shot Down over Ukraine

[SionEwig]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

<SNIP>

"Separatists looting the crash site" could mean a few different things in the real world. Is it locals stealing money from wallets (not a nice thought, but given how poor the villagers are it might be a once in a life time opportunity for a few dollars)? Is it people taking metal? Bodies (trophies, ransoms)?

Credit cards. That area is very well known for credit card fraud. Plus possibilities of recovering data from peoples various electronic devices which would lead to more fraud.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by SionEwig

Credit cards. That area is very well known for credit card fraud. Plus possibilities of recovering data from peoples various electronic devices which would lead to more fraud.

There's a YT video of them going through some guy's luggage; they jack his binocs but throw them back because they're broken.

[pmulcahy11b]

Let's not forget the Russians have done this before. KAL anyone?

Russian soldiers are world-known for their propensity towards atrocities. Crimea, World Wars one and two, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Afghanistan.

[stormlion1]

Looting and what appears to be destroying evidence. Not that there is all that much evidence to begin with. Its pretty cut and dried a missile hit the plane. But what they are probably looking for is missile fragments with serial codes. The looting is a added bonus to the militants.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

If they wish to destroy evidence perhaps we could assist them with concentrated JDAM strikes.

[Askold]

Russians, Russians, Russians...

They. Are. UKRAINIANS! (Or from people's Republic of Donetsk as they call the area they now control)

If some Canadian guy steals a wallet do you start complaining about "those God damn yankees" then?

...I know that the separatists are backed up and armed by Russia but they are still mainly Ukrainians. It was Crimea where they got Russian passports and the area was annexed wether the locals wanted or not. Donetsk is trying to become a separate country.

(And the looting seems to be acts of individuals rather than organised and approved by the militia.)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Askold

Russians, Russians, Russians...

They. Are. UKRAINIANS!

Yes, I'm entirely certain there are no Spetznaz on the ground directing this. Yessir, not a one.

[Askold]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Yes, I'm entirely certain there are no Spetznaz on the ground directing this. Yessir, not a one.

Oh, are you saying that the looters are Spetznaz or just that there are Spetznaz in Ukraine?

There were certainly Spetznaz at Crimea. That can be proven quite easily as the "volunteer troops who bought their weapons and gear from shops" had brand new 5.45mm Kalashnikovs with underslung grenade launcher that aren't for sale to civilians and there even were units which all had 2000€ optics on their guns. Not to mention that at least on one occasion Ukrainian troops captured "volunteer militia" members who were carrying their Russian military ID. ...Oops.

At Donetsk? If you have seen proof of Spetznaz then I am sure that several news agencies would be interested in seeing that. The separatists are mainly using gear that is either looted from Ukrainian military stores or the Russians were just smarter this time and issued older gear. The BUKs I think are the first military equipment that could be proven to have come from Russians. (And now there are already stories claiming that BUKs were seen being moved out of Donetsk and into Russia after downing the airplane.)

I have no doubts that Russians are backing up the separatists and many of the leaders, including the Igor Girkin / Igor Strelkov a former(?) FSB agent who first took credit for shooting the Malaysian plane, are Russians.

BUT most of the separatists seem to be Ukrainians even if they are pro-Russian Ukrainians. If there are Russian "advisors" or troops on the ground they are keeping a really low profile this time.