OT: Seriously????

[Raellus]

I wonder if my attempts at providing evidence for my original point has confused people. It seems that the forest is being missed for all of the trees. My point- and I stand by it- is simply this: a well-armed population is not a guarantee against tyranny. Insurance policy? Possibly, but warrantee, no.

There are, of course, many other factors at play, especially in Africa. I agree with you both there. This reality, however, supports my main point regarding the United States. One can't simply assume that the Constitutional right of personal firearm ownership means that tyranny can't arise here. I don't even think that firearm ownership even guarantees the right to redress. Are you saying that enlightened western society with democratic, capitalistic values, is immune from tyranny? Surely, not. What about Nazi Germany? And please don't trot out the "if personal firearm ownership had been legal in Germany c. 1933, there wouldn't have been a holocaust" argument because it's simply a counterfactual, Reductio ad Hilterlium logical fallacy.

If you're arguing that a western, democratic, capitalistic society with constitutionally guaranteed personal firearm ownership is immune to tyranny, then I suppose you're right. What's the historical sample size of the just-described nation(s)? Two? Three? Does that prove the theory?

Indeed, there are many examples of relatively poorly equipped guerillas defeating better equipped forces. It certainly can be done. That said, many of the rebellions you cited lasted for decades. Did they fix things? Is Afghanistan today a better place to live than Afghanistan under the Soviets, or under the Taliban? Maybe that's a bad example. How about Iraq? Its tyrant is dead and gone, right? It's a republic now, correct? Would any of us move there today? Hell no. Those places live under what I call the tyranny of the gun.

Yes, other factors besides the proliferation of military grade firearms are at play. I don't know... maybe we agree more than I think we do. To be quite honest, I myself am losing sight of how this debate got started. Perhaps I should stand down and wait for a reset.