Deserters in T2K

[Olefin]

Thats one place where I disagree strongly with the authors of the game - i.e. that Americans and British soldiers would so easily desert their units - maybe if this was the old US army that was mostly draftees - but by the mid 90's the regular US Army was as professional as the British one was

So you know I do not extend that to units that were either made up of trainees (like the hastily raised light infantry divisions in the US) or National Guard units.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Thats one place where I disagree strongly with the authors of the game - i.e. that Americans and British soldiers would so easily desert their units - maybe if this was the old US army that was mostly draftees - but by the mid 90's the regular US Army was as professional as the British one was

I'm talking about late in the Twilight War, Ole. By 2000, wouldn't a lot of front line combat troops be draftees and former REMFs? Those types aren't necessarily your best trained, equipped, and motivated troops. As I mentioned in my first post, being a replacement or among replacements could sever the bonds of comradery that binds military units together. Now imagine that your unit is low on supplies. If desertion was a problem for the U.S. Army in the ETO during WWII, especially when we were clearly winning the war, I can easily see it as being doubly so c.2000. Honestly, at that point, aside from one's buddies, what would be worth fighting for? If your buddies were all dead or you were stuck in a new unit with a bunch of strangers, there'd be even fewer reasons not to desert. It would be endemic.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

To go along with what Rae was talking about, I'd add that the veterans of the Twilight War might have been fighting for about half a decade and by the end of the war, they are no longer simply fighting for their country and/or a national cause. Those reasons have been ground out of them by the attrition of the war and the bonds they feel with their fellows have been created in those years. New people to the unit will be like strangers to them until the new personnel have had plenty of time to prove themselves to be competent and more importantly, prove themselves to be survivors - after years of war, you might be emotionally hardened against the death of your fellows but it doesn't mean you're going to want to befriend new people.

Then on top of all that, you have the devastation of the warzone that British & US troops will have learnt extends to their homelands - they aren't fighting any more to keep their homes safe, their homes have already been attacked and in some cases, destroyed.
I think in those last few years of the war, the psychological stress on British & US troops would be severe enough given the above factors that replacements to a unit could easily feel alienated enough to want to leave and maybe go home. Others might feel that the war is lost and lost by both sides after they started dropping nukes. Some of them would believe that since both sides have wrecked the planet, there is just nothing left worth fighting for.

[Targan]

In my last Twilight campaign there was a definite divide between the longest-serving members of the unit and the various newcomers. It fits well with reality but it wasn't artificial. There were definite trust issues with some of the newcomers, and also the newcomers were often pretty horrified at the unit's modus operandi, particularly after command passed to Major Anthony Po.

Sometimes there was movement of personnel between allied units too, often at the request of those being transferred. I think that forestalled a few instances of desertion. When Major Po's group encountered Captain Molly Warren's B Troop, 116th ACR at Dobrodzien there was a great deal of suspicion on both sides, although that was slightly mitigated by a few characters (PCs and NPCs) having met at other times during the war.

Major Po eventually tried to combine the two units and take overall command, but it didn't last very long. There was a brief civil war following a botched raid on the outskirts of Krakow, and the two units went their separate ways. A few personnel from both sides stayed with the respective new units. I think the legalities of who was technically in a state of desertion in a case like that would get very murky.

Taking it upon yourself to move to a different unit, with the permission of the receiving unit but not the original unit... I guess it would in that case come down to whether Captain Warren was found to be guilty of refusing Major Po's lawful orders or not. Warren's people were fiercely loyal to her and almost to a man ignored Po's orders once Warren was in conflict with him. Po's people had far more varied reasons for remaining loyal to him, but mostly it was fear.

[pmulcahy11b]

We kind of have it backward here, re the breakup of 5ID. The soldiers didn't desert the division -- The division deserted them.

[Cdnwolf]

I have one character who deserted from the Russians after the attack by during the last days at Kalisz. He was actually from the Ukraine but his first unit was decimated in China and he was the building core for another division sent against the Americans. When his tank was hit and most of the crew killed he grabbed the uniform of the highest ranking officer and bluffed his way out of the area. The group met him on the road to Krakow roasting rats under a bridge.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I have one character who deserted from the Russians after the attack by during the last days at Kalisz. He was actually from the Ukraine but his first unit was decimated in China and he was the building core for another division sent against the Americans. When his tank was hit and most of the crew killed he grabbed the uniform of the highest ranking officer and bluffed his way out of the area. The group met him on the road to Krakow roasting rats under a bridge.

A big question mark in the RL Cold War was just how reliable the non-Russian forces (both in the Soviet military and the NSWP forces) were going to be. I'm currently playing an Estonian deserter myself; she would like to get home to Tallinn if it's still there.